But the German player is the scenario defender. The French player starts off board. This is in regard to my question about bore sighting. It seems impossible to me that a target can be boresighted if its crew is at start outside the AFV. I was simply asking for confirmation of the obvious. Tim
An Armor Leader Alone in a Tank: his options.
- Thread starter TimNiesen
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PresterJohn
Senior Member
Once you enter the realms of "the SSR", who knows except for the designer.
Perhaps the simplest thing to do is discuss and agree with your opponent what is going on within the existing rules, especially D3.43.
Alternatively attempt to contact the designer for a Q&A.
Perhaps the simplest thing to do is discuss and agree with your opponent what is going on within the existing rules, especially D3.43.
Alternatively attempt to contact the designer for a Q&A.
PresterJohn
Senior Member
Are you invoking "reality" in reference to a rule in ASL?
Does the rule allow the defender to bore sight? Is there an SSR that disallows it?
There is logic, but no "reality".
FrankH.
Member
FWIW, nothing at all that is halved in ASL is rounded up unless the rules specifically state so. It is simply halved.
Which scenario are you playing? I assumed it was 232 the one listed above. But the SSR for that scenario doesn't say that, it's very straightforward. So maybe we should figure out which scenario you're playing so we can actually help you out.
Assault fire. Half of 5 for shooting in the afph is 2.5, add one for assault fire 3.5, round up 4.
AFV moves into debris at 1/4 of its MP. The AFV has 13 MP. Its 3.25 to enter FRU. So 4 to enter plus the bog check.
That's why I suggested he check the rule book.
6.42 During setup, the Scenario Defender may choose one Bore Sighted Location for each allowed weapon. This Location must be outside the weapon’s own hex, and within both the LOS of the weapon (or its Spotter;
I would argue that an abandoned afv does not have LOS to anything but you're right there's nothing specifically saying it's not allowed. Another argument would be that an abandoned afv is neither friendly nor enemy. Do they still set up concealed? I don't know.
PresterJohn
Senior Member
Bore sighting reads to be crew specific. It's the crew who have the bore sight for their weapon/vehicle. It does read though that the crew IDs would have to be noted as belonging to a vehicle so as to be able to use the bore sight when they reoccupy "their" vehicle and not any other vehicle and/or crew combination.
Prester John, your answers make the most sense to me. That the armor leader is linked with a specific crew, which I assume is linked with a specific AFV. And that bore sighting is still possible in this case since it is not prohibited by an SSR in this scenario. As far as the scenario I am reading from a xeroxed scenario card, which is entitled ASL SCENARIO U. The title is as I cited earlier. Tim
PresterJohn
Senior Member
Firstly thanks to the wonderful work going on at ASL Scenario Archive.
Scenario U is from The General and republished as ASL 232 CHANCE D'UNE AFFAIRE in Croix de Guerre.
I see that the crew set up in the same hex as their vehicle. I was wondering if you had some scenario situation where the crew had to make it from Cafe Rene all the way back to their little tank. Make sure you name the armour leader Gruber.
Scenario U is from The General and republished as ASL 232 CHANCE D'UNE AFFAIRE in Croix de Guerre.
I see that the crew set up in the same hex as their vehicle. I was wondering if you had some scenario situation where the crew had to make it from Cafe Rene all the way back to their little tank. Make sure you name the armour leader Gruber.
I've looked at the original scenario card and it's basically the same as 232. The original scenario does not say set up within either afv in the SSRs. It says to set up with either afv crew. It appears the biggest difference is in 232 the Germans are not the scenario defender. The set up instructions are pretty clear.
klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
Where do you see this?
BattleSchool
Elder Member
This version of the scenario is from The General Vol. 30 No. 5.
On this card, SSR 3 states that Pz IIF begin played Abandoned (D5.41), which means that there is no one inside these AFV at start.
There is therefore no Armor Leader inside either tank. As per the setup instructions on this card, the Armor Leader is "With either AFV crew (D3.43)." That means that once the crew "with" the Armor Leader enters an AFV, the Armor Leader becomes active inside that AFV. He doesn't exist in any form until then, as per D3.43, which the card references.
BattleSchool
Elder Member
The Boresighting question is a bit of a red herring. While it may be allowed under the rules--Klas would be better positioned to answer that--SSR 4 specifically states that the tanks were refuelling at the time, an unlikely position from which to have taken the time to Boresight. Play the scenario how you like. <shrug>
Chas
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I could get into a reality argument either way. I think this is simply an expected oversight....well, I dont even want to call it an oversight. If I had been the one writing this rule I would have never considered crews not inside an AFV.
My 'guess' is that the intent is no Bore Sighting.
My 'guess' is that the intent is no Bore Sighting.
Thank you for locating the source.it is certainly a moot question. An oversight by the designer. And Battleschool is correct, as I have explained before my eyesight is bad; the word crew is in far smaller font. Only when I looked for it closely did I see the qualification “crew.” My eyesight error. Tim
"which I assume is linked with a specific AFV." This is not true. If they survive a CS or abandon and occupy a different abandoned AFV, their abilities remain the same.
PresterJohn
Senior Member
No, they would then lose the bore sight for that vehicle if it was recorded. Note the context of being linked to a specific vehicle. Without that context of the bore sight then there is no need to be linked. Unless of course you were ignoring that part of the conversation and assuming no bore sighting was allowed.
Good point, I was wondering in the context of this scenario, one strategy might be to abandon one of the vulnerable Panzer 2s, and transfer its crew and inherent leader to the far more offensively powerful at least in 1940, 37L halftrack, arriving on turn six.. I have seen this type of halftrack do powerful things on the Russian Front in 1941 against weak armored enemy tanks. Granted the opposition French tanks are better armored than the bulk of early war Russian AFVs. The 37L is simply a far more power gun than the 20L. Tim