A Pinned Enemy Unit and a Routing Unit.

[Tim Niesen]

A enemy pinned is Adjacent to a broken unit. Does this unit interdict the routing unit for purposes of killing that unit for failure to rout? Ti

 

[jrv]

A enemy pinned is Adjacent to a broken unit. Does this unit interdict the routing unit for purposes of killing that unit for failure to rout?

Interdiction is forcing a routing unit to take a morale check while routing. A pinned unit cannot interdict, i.e. it cannot force a unit to take a morale check while routing. A pinned unit cannot be routed towards, nor can a broken unit remain ADJACENT to a pinned unit.

JR

 

[Jazz]

Just to amplify what JR is saying, Interdiction (A10.53) does not force a unit to die. It does present the possibility of an already broken unit failing a MC and suffering CR for that failure.

A pinned unit can NOT perform Interdiction as per A10.53.

A routing unit cannot rout toward a pinned enemy unit as that quialifies as an armed KEU and could possibly die for failure to rout due to the presence of a pinned enemy unit blocking a rout path.

Edit: Correcting typo

 

[Juan SantaX]

.....
A pinned unit can perform Interdiction as per A10.53.
.....

I was with you until I saw JR answer. I went to the rules and read them slowly.... A10.532 ..”...Any unit whose FP is halved [EXC: mortars] (Pin, Motion, Mounted Firer, etc.) may not Interdict...”.

I’m starting to think that maybe JR is an AI/Bot from MMP...

 

[Vinnie]

The pinned unit will not 8nterdict. However if another unit can interdict the the pinned unit can take the surrender.

 

[Jazz]

I was with you until I saw JR answer. I went to the rules and read them slowly.... A10.532 ..”...Any unit whose FP is halved [EXC: mortars] (Pin, Motion, Mounted Firer, etc.) may not Interdict...”.

I’m starting to think that maybe JR is an AI/Bot from MMP...

A typo on my part.....a pinned unit CANNOT perform Interdiction.

This will happen to you as well when you get older......

 

[Tim Niesen]

JR, I reread your answer. And now conclude that the unit must die. The situation is that the only rout path of the broken 447 would force it to move directly past the already Adjacent pinned Rumanian 227. There is unbroken German 247 two hexes away, blocking it's only other path. Tim

 

[Juan SantaX]

A typo on my part.....a pinned unit CANNOT perform Interdiction.

This will happen to you as well when you get older......

I feel so old...

 

[Robin Reeve]

JR, I reread your answer. And now conclude that the unit must die. The situation is that the only rout path of the broken 447 would force it to move directly past the already Adjacent pinned Rumanian 227. There is unbroken German 247 two hexes away, blocking it's only other path. Tim

If No Quarter isn't enforced, the brokie will surrender.

 

[Jazz]

JR, I reread your answer. And now conclude that the unit must die. The situation is that the only rout path of the broken 447 would force it to move directly past the already Adjacent pinned Rumanian 227. There is unbroken German 247 two hexes away, blocking it's only other path. Tim

Yup, he's dead Jim. In a strict rules lawyering way (and if we're not rules lawyers what are we?) that is not "Interdiction" as defined in the rules but death for failure to rout.

Possibility of surrender depends on No Quarter in effect or not and who is possibly next to the brokies at the start of the rout.

 

[Vinnie]

No, he surrenders as he is unable to rout away. If no quarter exists thenthen it is death through failure to rout.

 

[Jazz]

No, he surrenders as he is unable to rout away. If no quarter exists thenthen it is death through failure to rout.

Only if there is a unit ADJACENT to surrender to....which I cannot tell if that wuz the case from the original post.

 

[Vinnie]

Only if there is a unit ADJACENT to surrender to....which I cannot tell if that wuz the case from the original post.

enemy pinned is Adjacent to a broken unit. Does this unit interdict the routing

 

[Eagle4ty]

Has this thing gone in circles? It was hard enough to discern what was meant the first time around.

 

[Larry]

A broken unit ADJACENT to a pinned unit can rout away without being subject to interdiction by the pinned unit.

A broken unit ADJACENT to a pinned unit that cannot legally rout away or cannot rout away without being subject to interdiction by other units will surrender to that pinned unit unless no quarter is in effect.

A broken unit ADJACENT to a pinned unit, while subject to no quarter, will rout away and either low crawl or take the interdiction MC. If unable to rout away, "they are eliminated rather than surrender." A20.21.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Let me try and make it more clear. The pinned Rumanian 227 engineer half squad is located in the end of a row house. Adjacent is an abandoned German Panzer 3 J is sitting. My dubious plan was for the 447 to enter the tank. There is a German 247 half squad two hexes away in a Stone Building. The broken 447 cannot rout in that direction. The only hex back to a concealment hex is the next hex back, which is Adjacent to both the tank hex and the pinned 227 Rumanian unit. So he cannot surrender, but is eliminated. I think. Thanks for your help. Tim

 

[dlazov]

You know a screen shot of a vasl image would help mightly.

 

[semenza]

Let me try and make it more clear. The pinned Rumanian 227 engineer half squad is located in the end of a row house. Adjacent is an abandoned German Panzer 3 J is sitting. My dubious plan was for the 447 to enter the tank. There is a German 247 half squad two hexes away in a Stone Building. The broken 447 cannot rout in that direction. The only hex back to a concealment hex is the next hex back, which is Adjacent to both the tank hex and the pinned 227 Rumanian unit. So he cannot surrender, but is eliminated. I think. Thanks for your help. Tim

Hard to picture the situation without knowing the actual directions involved. Do you mean "concealment hex" or route terrain?

Unless upper levels have been SSRed out the unit can route upstairs.

Seth

 

[Tim Niesen]

Soon I will have the Vassal board! My new laptop is functional. Not sure why this is unclear. The broken 447 is in the same hex with a disabled and abandoned German Pan 3 J. It therefore cannot be in a building. There is no concealment terrain along the only rout path. And that one hex path is ADJACENT to the pinned Rumanian engineer half squad. The presence of the good order German 247 in a Stone Building two hexes away narrows the rout path to one hex. Tim

 

[Jazz]

Soon I will have the Vassal board! My new laptop is functional. Not sure why this is unclear. The broken 447 is in the same hex with a disabled and abandoned German Pan 3 J. It therefore cannot be in a building. There is no concealment terrain along the only rout path. And that one hex path is ADJACENT to the pinned Rumanian engineer half squad. The presence of the good order German 247 in a Stone Building two hexes away narrows the rout path to one hex. Tim

I suppose I am somewhat concerned....."Concealment terrain" seems to figure prominently in your rout path/target considerations?

When it comes to routing, Interdiction is not about concealment terrain but about open ground as defined by A10.531, and rout targets are only about those terrain types called out in A10.51.

Granted, often it might seem like its about concealment terrain, but it really isn't.