HBO's "The Pacfic"

Michael Dorosh

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Isn't Sledge about to go to boot camp? Should be showing at least some of the basic training, maybe on part III.
Exactly. Don't some of the previews show Basilone as a drill instructor in the States, also? Again, if they have boot camp scenes later in the series, there is no reason to include them in the first two episodes also. Like, wait and see how all ten episodes play out - it's called a "series" for a reason.
 

Markdv5208

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Isn't Sledge about to go to boot camp? Should be showing at least some of the basic training, maybe on part III.
Actually, if memory serves from Sledges book WITH THE OLD BREED, he was a college student in NROTC in 1944, felt bored like he was missing out, so he quit school so that he could be 'forced' into the active duty USMC. Next thing you know, he was a replacment mortarmen in Sept 1944 landing at Pelileu (that would be an OOOPS).
 

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Based on the nature of the island fighting, I think the majority of the character development will come between the campaigns. We'll get more of Leckie and Basilone and the rest now they are clear of Guadalcanal and focus on Sledge. Then it will be Pelileu (Sledge), Phillipines? (Leckie), then Okinawa (Sledge). I'm sure they'll fill in other stuff, but Sledge's book is just those two and Helmet For My Pillow was mostly Guadalcanal and I think Phillipines. I need to re-read it. It's been 15+ years but it is in my "lesser" books storage, meaning I wasn't that impressed upon first read. With the Old Breed on the other hand is on my desk and never put away as it has been often in the last 20 years and will be read again every few.

I was a bit disappointed with Guadalcanal from a historical perspective. The action was intense but it's hard to condense many months of raw jungle existence into 90 minutes. They go from arrival to Ilu to starving on rice to army landing to a non-descript battle to leaving and I never really bought into them being ragged just because they were served buggy rice and had some tattered uniforms. Still, I'm enjoying it, but it's not as dramatic yet. I'm hoping it builds with Sledge and they do Pelileu and Okinawa justice.
 

Carln0130

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Bassilone died on Iwo also, so Iwo I am sure will get some coverage as well.
Based on the nature of the island fighting, I think the majority of the character development will come between the campaigns. We'll get more of Leckie and Basilone and the rest now they are clear of Guadalcanal and focus on Sledge. Then it will be Pelileu (Sledge), Phillipines? (Leckie), then Okinawa (Sledge). I'm sure they'll fill in other stuff, but Sledge's book is just those two and Helmet For My Pillow was mostly Guadalcanal and I think Phillipines. I need to re-read it. It's been 15+ years but it is in my "lesser" books storage, meaning I wasn't that impressed upon first read. With the Old Breed on the other hand is on my desk and never put away as it has been often in the last 20 years and will be read again every few.

I was a bit disappointed with Guadalcanal from a historical perspective. The action was intense but it's hard to condense many months of raw jungle existence into 90 minutes. They go from arrival to Ilu to starving on rice to army landing to a non-descript battle to leaving and I never really bought into them being ragged just because they were served buggy rice and had some tattered uniforms. Still, I'm enjoying it, but it's not as dramatic yet. I'm hoping it builds with Sledge and they do Pelileu and Okinawa justice.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Based on the nature of the island fighting, I think the majority of the character development will come between the campaigns. We'll get more of Leckie and Basilone and the rest now they are clear of Guadalcanal and focus on Sledge. Then it will be Pelileu (Sledge), Phillipines? (Leckie), then Okinawa (Sledge). I'm sure they'll fill in other stuff...
You've forgotten Iwo Jima entirely. For what it is worth, the basic outline of the individual episodes are not a secret, and there are message boards devoted to the series which have been in existence for months if not years. Even the "making of" that HBO aired gives some solid hints about what will be upcoming and what shape the series is likely to take.

Basilone died on Iwo also, so Iwo I am sure will get some coverage as well.
Episode 8.
 

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I have looked at HBO's website and IIRC 3 is homefront, 4 is eniewetok, 5 and 6 are Peleliu, 7 &8 are Iwo and 9 and 10 are Okinawa. Though something tells me that there is another topic in there
 

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Nothing on Tarawa? Interesting. I guess these guys were lucky to miss that one.
 

Michael Dorosh

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This reviewer has mirrored perfectly my own reaction to the series; probably that of some of you as well.

http://www.slantmagazine.com/tv/review/the-pacific/158

It is inevitable, though not entirely fair, that HBO's The Pacific will be compared to Band of Brothers. Both were executive produced by Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg, and both follow American soldiers as they fight in World War II. Both also employ the shaky-cam photography and gut-splatter realism of Spielberg's own Saving Private Ryan. But while Band of Brothers took all that was groundbreaking about that film and outclassed it to become one of the great American miniseries (if not the greatest), The Pacific is like a less successful younger sibling. It manages to convey the particular horror of the Pacific theater of operations, but it's often saddled by too much exposition, unnecessary backstories, and an overindulgence in sentimentality.

Instead of focusing on one company of soldiers, as Band of Brothers did, The Pacific follows three real marines, two of whom, Robert Leckie (James Badge Dale) and Eugene Sledge (Joe Mazello), went on to write memoirs that served as the primary source material for the series. The third marine is John Basilone (Jon Seda), a hero in the early battle of Guadalcanal, who spends the majority of the war years on a war bond tour before entering combat again at Iwo Jima. The presence of Basilone allows the filmmakers to focus some of the story away from the ceaseless fighting and brutal conditions of the Pacific Islands; it's a welcome respite, but the heart of the film ultimately lies in its unnerving depiction of combat hell.

One of the weaknesses of the series is its writing: Do we really need to be told through dialogue that war is hell, especially when advances in special effects, and not to mention a budget well over a hundred million dollars, allow for some jarring and up-close combat sequences? Nowhere is this more glaring than at the very beginning, as the principal marines prepare to sign up and ship out. The dialogue seems written to hammer home big themes of sacrifice and father-son bonds (an all-too-familiar trope in Spielberg productions), and this overwriting threatens to sink the series before it even begins. "The worst thing about treating those combat boys wasn't that they had had their flesh torn, it was that they had had their souls torn out," says Sledge's father, a one-time combat doctor trying to prevent his son from joining up.

Full disclosure: HBO apparently didn't send the entire series to press for review, but only the early episodes dealing with Guadalcanal and the later episodes that depict the battle for the island of Peleliu, including one episode directed by the excellent genre film director Carl Franklin (Devil in a Blue Dress, Out of Time). The episodes set on Peleliu are much stronger than the earlier ones; they manage to convey not just the dehumanization of war, but also the way in which alienation spread among the allied soldiers. Sledge, the primary marine in these episodes, is played by the child-faced Joe Mazello, and it's made clear that he is equally haunted by the nonchalance and cruelty of some of his fighting brethren as he is by the close-up combat with the Japanese soldiers.

Because some of the iconography of the Pacific theater is deemed less familiar to audiences than the European war, each episode of this 10-part series begins with interviews with the actual soldiers, wartime footage, and Tom Hanks delivering brief history lessons in voiceover. These segments are helpful to a degree, but they're also jarring. They make it seem as though the producers would rather have made a documentary, and they also highlight just how anecdotal the rest of the series is. The assault on Peleliu, for example, was a controversial decision; over 1,600 American soldiers lost their lives securing an island that turned out to have no strategic value. With its 10-hour running time, The Pacific could have stretched its focus to include some of the reasoning that went into the assault while not sacrificing its grunts-on-the-ground aesthetics.

Ultimately, what a series like this aims to do is to pay homage to the marines who sacrificed their lives. The Pacific succeeds at that task, asking its audience to imagine what those battles must have been like from the ground level, and for that alone, it's worth watching. But The Pacific fails by trying to wrest big emotional moments from its already compelling narrative. Nothing I saw in the series was as ham-handed as Saving Private Ryan's epilogue, when Matt Damon morphed into an old man weeping by a grave, but neither was anything I saw as streamlined and graceful as Band of Brothers, where the embellishments were kept to a minimum.
But do note that the reviewer feels the best is yet to come (Peleliu), and much material was not made available to reviewers at all.
 

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The Pacific also is much shorter than BoB: Each episode is around 50 mins in length, and much shortre if you remove the tedium at the beginning. Some episodes of BoB hit slightly over 1hr.

I must be showing my lack of a Y chromasome, but I liked the sentimentality of bothSaving Private Ryan and The Pacific. What I don't like is HBO wasting my time with pointless narration and a distinct lack of combat. It smacks of cheap-ness.
 

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The Pacific also is much shorter than BoB: Each episode is around 50 mins in length, and much shortre if you remove the tedium at the beginning. Some episodes of BoB hit slightly over 1hr.

I must be showing my lack of a Y chromasome, but I liked the sentimentality of bothSaving Private Ryan and The Pacific. What I don't like is HBO wasting my time with pointless narration and a distinct lack of combat. It smacks of cheap-ness.
LOL. Maybe I need to get my Y chromosome checked, because I think the sentimentality of SPR was timed pretty right historically... i.e. it was a good thing to look back as so many of the WWII vets were (and are) nearing the end of their lives. One of the best memories Il have of my Dad was going to see SPR with him and talking with him about the war directly afterwards.

And I'm also beginning to have similar feeling about the "cheap-ness."

BoB was really much more focused because of the fact that it was essentially dealing with a single company of men. We stay with them throughout the series and so it flows very nicely.

TP is much broader than that, and bouncing around from one major character to another interrupts the flow. IMHO, the series should have been longer, more like 20 episodes, rather than 10 *short ones*.

Nevertheless, I'm hopeful the series is going to finish more strongly than it started.

JT
 
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I am sans HBO as well, so I too will be waiting for the DVD set to be released later this year. I would be most interested in seeing what Peleliu actions they decide to portray and how they plan on doing them. I doubt they'll do the beach landings (how many can you depict on one mini-series???). So my list of actions they might portray would probably include the big bunker on D-Day, the Japanese tank/infantry counterattack on D-Day, the initial assault on Bloody Nose Ridge, Hill 100/Walt's Ridge/Pope's Ridge as a night action, the Three Sisters Ridge, the Three Knobs (during a typhoon no less), WIldcat Bowl, Death Valley, Horshoe Valley, the Phosphate Mine, the amphibous assault on nearby Ngesbus Island, or maybe the attack on China Wall where Colonel Nakagawa had his CP. Seriously doubt they would choose to do the battles in the south part of the island, the Five Brothers Ridge (pretty much a repeat of the 5 sistahs) or in the mangrove swamps on the eastern side of "the Loo". Still, lots of brutal actions they could select from IMHO. Anyone looking for additional resource materials on this battle are "To the Far Side of Hell" by Derrick Wright, "Coral Come High" by George P. Hunt, and "The Devil's Anvil: the Assault on Peleliu" by James H. Hallas. I highly recommend all three of these. If you are looking for more, contact me...I have a list of about 25 sources that were used in the research of the Peleliu HASL currently under developement. The preceeding was a paid announcement, not to be confused with a frebie "Public Service Announcement". or a Political Announcement. :)
 

Michael Dorosh

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I am sans HBO as well, so I too will be waiting for the DVD set to be released later this year. I would be most interested in seeing what Peleliu actions they decide to portray and how they plan on doing them. I doubt they'll do the beach landings (how many can you depict on one mini-series???).
Guadalcanal was unopposed, while Peleliu was opposed, so there was something of a difference between the two.

So my list of actions they might portray would probably include
Several trailers and clips are available for free download all over the net. Did any of your books really not mention an airfield? A simple google search on the series will tell you that one of the episodes is actually named "Peleliu Airfield."
 

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Episode One in the UK this weekend....
Whooooooo

And the final ever episodes of a Touch of Frost
Double WHOOOOOOOOO
 

Markdv5208

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Opinion. Saying I'm a prior Marine and I've read 2 of the books that go along with the TV series PACIFIC....

Compared to BAND OF BROTHERS, Pacific is NOT as good. After watching 4 hours of the series, I don't see the same development of storyline or characters esp compared to the books.

Hour 4 was especially disappointing. They suffered for MONTHS in New Britain, then when 1st MarDiv was pulled out to rest, they sent them to Paavu INSTEAD of Australia. The Marine Corps rationale was that it kept them closer to the battle front, but the reality was that it did NOT rest and recover the Marines after months of terrible combat.

Then on top of that, they held a lottery to sent men back stateside who had been in Guadalcanal AND New Britain. The catch was that the men who could go back could NOT have any trouble associated with their name ie no Article 15s or any other articles of War for not following USMC rules. BTW, guess who the good fighters were? They very same Marines who were goofballs when NOT in combat.

THE point of all this is that Pacific is NOT doing the job vs. Band of Brothers. It's not a bad series, in fact, I'll probably buy it once it's relatively cheap to own. It's just not as good as Band of Brothers...

Just my opinion...

Mark DV
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Michael Dorosh

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Hour 4 was especially disappointing. They suffered for MONTHS in New Britain, then when 1st MarDiv was pulled out to rest, they sent them to Paavu INSTEAD of Australia. The Marine Corps rationale was that it kept them closer to the battle front, but the reality was that it did NOT rest and recover the Marines after months of terrible combat.

Then on top of that, they held a lottery to sent men back stateside who had been in Guadalcanal AND New Britain.
They showed all this in Ep. 4 so I'm not sure what accounts for your reaction? They had to do it through the lens of one character, given the route they decided to take with the series, but it seems like they hit all the high points you mentioned.

The catch was that the men who could go back could NOT have any trouble associated with their name ie no Article 15s or any other articles of War for not following USMC rules. BTW, guess who the good fighters were? They very same Marines who were goofballs when NOT in combat.
It would make perverse sense then to send the angels home and keep the good fighters around...Denis Whitaker had the same observation about his men in the United Kingdom - only he used the term "hellers" (or hell raisers) instead of goofballs. Same meaning; the AWLs, drunks, etc. were the guys that were most dependable in a fight because they were fearless and independent.

THE point of all this is that Pacific is NOT doing the job vs. Band of Brothers. It's not a bad series, in fact, I'll probably buy it once it's relatively cheap to own. It's just not as good as Band of Brothers...

Just my opinion...

Mark DV
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I won't really know until I've seen all of them, but it is starting to seem like the characters in this one are far less engaging to the audience. I think it is because they are all in different units - and often, even different countries - and the writers are having to fill in so many gaps of the historical record whereas the BoB writers had access to the actual veterans, as well as a pretty great primary source document to start with (and a much larger ensemble to write about). One wonders how well the Pacific would have been received had it premiered before Band of Brothers, given the inevitable comparisons.

In BoB, having the character of Sobel to play off of in Episode 1 created sympathy for the entire cast right off, and one started to identify early on with Company E. You rooted for them - who hasn't had a miserable boss or supervisor? You don't need to go to war to "get" that. By comparison, the Marines in The Pacific are mostly just sullen faces under steel helmets experiencing random events with no immediate motivation. That's true life in the military, but it's not great drama.
 

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As I further ponder my reaction....in trying to tell ALL the story they aren't telling enough of the story to fill in all the blanks so they end out telling 3 stories badly rather than 1 or 2 stories well.

It doesn't help that the PTO is far different than the ETO and that the parachute boys were much different than...well, everyone else.

JMHO....mind you, let's see how Pelileu plays out, and then Iwo Jima. And it's not like I'm ending my subscription to HBO over it. I mean, really, it's not like a really BAD WW2 movie like say, Thin Red Line (BARF) or Battle of the Bulge (half BARF)...

Mark DV
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First two episodes in the UK last night.
It was THE programme I've looked forward to more than any other for a good few years
Sadly I thought it was very poor
Just didn't float my personal boat in any way shape or form.
I think it tried to cram too much in the first two episodes
I found the first half hour quite dull to be honest
I don't think it told the Guadalcanal story particularly well (The Thin Red Line told the story infinitely more well in my eyes)
Probably will give the rest a miss sadly
 

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After the first 2 episodes, I thought it was good.

I don't watch this sort of thing for character development or any deeper meaning than giving the casual viewer a glimpse of what war in different theatres is all about. To that extent I think it did a good job.

It did sort of give the impression that kids were signing up to the Marines to get shipped off to the Islands pretty quickly, so didn't quite impress the difference between the elite status of the Marines compared to that of the Army. I've no question as to the accuracy portrayed of the Japanese attacks, but it did press home the futility of the Japanese tactics without really explaining the reasoning behind the charges.

I think this is because it's simply from the US perspective, so the Marines were probably as taken aback as the viewer, but although it was as real as it probably is possible to show, it felt a little bit like a stereotypical war movie with the nameless, faceless, enemy throwing themselves in front of the MMG.

Dave
 

Martin Mayers

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After the first 2 episodes, I thought it was good.

I don't watch this sort of thing for character development or any deeper meaning than giving the casual viewer a glimpse of what war in different theatres is all about. To that extent I think it did a good job.

It did sort of give the impression that kids were signing up to the Marines to get shipped off to the Islands pretty quickly, so didn't quite impress the difference between the elite status of the Marines compared to that of the Army. I've no question as to the accuracy portrayed of the Japanese attacks, but it did press home the futility of the Japanese tactics without really explaining the reasoning behind the charges.

I think this is because it's simply from the US perspective, so the Marines were probably as taken aback as the viewer, but although it was as real as it probably is possible to show, it felt a little bit like a stereotypical war movie with the nameless, faceless, enemy throwing themselves in front of the MMG.

Dave
Have to say....in terms of ticking the boxes you've mentioned there Dave, the two films from Clint Eastwood, Letters from Iwo Jima especially, does a far better job than TP, thus far at least.

I do agree with your comment about war in different theatres but I do genuinely believe film makers have to be a little more constructive when filming and showing war in sort of dark, jungle environments. By which I mean, maybe it's my age and eyesight, but the overwhelming majority of the time I couldn't even SEE what the hell was happening never mind UNDERSTAND what was going on......

Which is probably a realistic representation....but not particularly interesting viewing
 

Michael Dorosh

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First two episodes in the UK last night.
It was THE programme I've looked forward to more than any other for a good few years
Sadly I thought it was very poor
Just didn't float my personal boat in any way shape or form.
I think it tried to cram too much in the first two episodes
I found the first half hour quite dull to be honest
I don't think it told the Guadalcanal story particularly well (The Thin Red Line told the story infinitely more well in my eyes)
Probably will give the rest a miss sadly
Well, if you like low-rent pornography, you're going to love episode three. Watch it with someone you love.
 
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