HBO's "The Pacfic"

[paulkenny]

i think the first episode should have been split into 2 episodes. an initial training episode ala BoB where we get to know the characters and then a full one on the first months of Guadalcanal. There was alot more they could have explored. plus a little more discussion about strategy etc to give those with limited knowledge on the PTO an idea on what was going on

I for one was disappointed with the episode.

 

[paulkenny]

also the view of the savo island was ridiculous noone on land had that close aview of the battle, that one burning cruiser (Northampton?) looked like it was a mile offshore!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

i think the first episode should have been split into 2 episodes. an initial training episode ala BoB where we get to know the characters and then a full one on the first months of Guadalcanal. There was alot more they could have explored. plus a little more discussion about strategy etc to give those with limited knowledge on the PTO an idea on what was going on

I for one was disappointed with the episode.

How many movies do we really need showing "basic training"?

If the actual historical participants never wrote about their experiences in boot camp, what value is served by fictionalizing it?

 

[Roadtogundagai]

How many movies do we really need showing "basic training"?

If the actual historical participants never wrote about their experiences in boot camp, what value is served by fictionalizing it?

I think the biggest reason we got so much of that in BOB was because of the SOB training officer easy company had (Captain Sobel) and how that helped build easy company into a strong unit.

The Wikipedia entry for Sobel just reeks of what an officious PITA the guy was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Sobel

Interesting that the higher ranking officers had the wisdom of removing him from the post of company commander before DDay. Probably saved him from a "friendly fire" incident.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I think the biggest reason we got so much of that in BOB was because of the SOB training officer easy company had (Captain Sobel) and how that helped build easy company into a strong unit.

The Wikipedia entry for Sobel just reeks of what an officious PITA the guy was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Sobel

Interesting that the higher ranking officers had the wisdom of removing him from the post of company commander before DDay. Probably saved him from a "friendly fire" incident.

Full Metal Jacket was popular because Ermey's character and his interactions with his men was outside of reality (it was far more common for boot camp instructors in Vietnam-era Marine Corps life to beat their recruits black and blue, than for recruits to murder their drill instructors, and from what I've read, even the former was relatively rare). Sobel was notable probably not for his incompetence but for the number of over-the-top examples of incompetence that have survived in the telling, by Ambrose's book and of course the many memoirs now by E Company veterans. Great fodder for a TV show. Reality is usually more mundane than that.

By the way, Band of Brothers never showed "boot camp." All the soldiers in Company E were trained soldiers when they arrived. Band of Brothers showed parachute qualification and unit training. My comments would apply equally to the concept of a "unit training" episode for The Pacific - it is quite possible we will see some of this later on, when the youngster joins up. It would be a duplication to have it in the early episodes, if there were more meaningful things to show about Marine boot camp or unit training from his perspective later on.

 

[paulkenny]

i think that the problem with TP compared to BoB is that it seems flat, they just basically jumped from a brief introduction to the 3 protaganists to guadalcanal. Something was missing, perhaps it was the script, but i wasnt as engaged as I was during the jump into Normandy during BoB. I figure it had to do with , getting to know the characters in BoB prior to teh action. There was much they could have done on GC, ie mention Gavutu Tananbogo, explore the Japanese entrenchments and airfield, more jungle action, build up to aligator creek, explain why they were fighting there.

did the japs EVER land during the day? I dont think so, though I might be mistaken, IIRC, the navy still provided some air cover during the day.

Lepke's character could have been further developed, he seems quite stoic and not very developed.


Basilone's family was the stereotypical italian family in WW2 (that may be accurate) but falls short of building the drama that could make this series great.

I really hope they improve the series, Peleliu looks AWESOME!

 

[Rockford]

Basilone's family was the stereotypical italian family in WW2 (that may be accurate) but falls short of building the drama that could make this series great.

I think this was a general problem. TP seems full of war movie cliche where BoB studiously avoided any. It's unavoidable but also probably also unfair to keep makling the BoB comparision. BoB is special. IMO one of the great TV series of ANY genre. It wasn't like normal TV. The writing and acting often very subtle. Damian Lewis performance as Winters was always just about perfect.

So far TP just seems more like any decent TV show. Anyway, maybe also a little unfair to make judgements this early. It's not like any of us are going to stop watching.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

So far TP just seems more like any decent TV show. Anyway, maybe also a little unfair to make judgements this early.

I'm picturing some dude sitting down to the first 10% of Star Wars in 1977, walking out after 20 minutes, and publishing a scathing review because the movie was nothing but "two gay robots walking around aimlessly in the sand on some deserted planet."

Judging an entire creative work by the first 10%, without seeing the other 90%, seems like an iffy proposition at best, in other words.

 

[Martin Mayers]

I think the biggest reason we got so much of that in BOB was because of the SOB training officer easy company had (Captain Sobel) and how that helped build easy company into a strong unit.

The Wikipedia entry for Sobel just reeks of what an officious PITA the guy was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Sobel

Interesting that the higher ranking officers had the wisdom of removing him from the post of company commander before DDay. Probably saved him from a "friendly fire" incident.

Dunno where I read it but Sobel was misunderstood and possibly badly misrepresented in the BOB series.
Whilst he was incapable of leading a unit into battle his fitness and training regime saved many a soldier's lives when they got into the heat of battle.
His story is rather sad actually

 

[Martin Mayers]

I think this was a general problem. TP seems full of war movie cliche where BoB studiously avoided any. It's unavoidable but also probably also unfair to keep makling the BoB comparision. BoB is special. IMO one of the great TV series of ANY genre. It wasn't like normal TV. The writing and acting often very subtle. Damian Lewis performance as Winters was always just about perfect.

So far TP just seems more like any decent TV show. Anyway, maybe also a little unfair to make judgements this early. It's not like any of us are going to stop watching.

Damien Lewis was already a remarkably accomplished actor.
I remember watching him in a series for TV over here in the UK called Warriors...all about British Peacekeeping troops in Bosnia.
A very special series and his acting in that was absolutely superb
There's quite a number of very impressive British actors in BOB...does anyone know why that is? Is it a shortage of US actors good for such roles or something more calculated? I often wondered when watching it what guys like the chef out of Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels was doing in there...lol

 

[paulkenny]

the contrarian in me always hates the characters that your supposed to like but guarnier and toye I really liked. I especially enjoyed them razzing each other about being the last off the field of battle after getting their legs blown off, truly tough guys!

and in typical HBO style they used actors from other series OZ and Sopranos for Toye and Guarnier respectively

 

[jpellam]

I'm picturing some dude sitting down to the first 10% of Star Wars in 1977, walking out after 20 minutes, and publishing a scathing review because the movie was nothing but "two gay robots walking around aimlessly in the sand on some deserted planet."

Judging an entire creative work by the first 10%, without seeing the other 90%, seems like an iffy proposition at best, in other words.

Yeah really, what goof ball rates a ten part series after watching the first part (at time of posting)?

 

[James Taylor]

I'm in agreement with Paul. I think the series needed to have more character development prior to jumping to the action. That is what we could have gotten with some time spent showing the characters going through training.

Still... I enjoyed epsiode 2, so I'm of a mind that as things continue the gap in character development will close.

JT

 

[Carln0130]

Actually James, I'm in agreement. In fact, it looks like episode three is going to focus alot on character development as these guys get some stateside time and have to deal with new found hero status. It should be interesting to see how it is handled. I agree the character development has been weak... so far.... but we are just getting started. Trying to fit four years into ten episodes is a lot tougher than fitting one year into ten episodes. Didn't have a problem with the Japanese just banzaing into the Ilu in the first episode, Ichiki's attack was folly, but the second attack on the ridge was a bit disappointing because if I am correct in my reading, the Japanese did a better job with their tactics the second time around. Not sure the run straight into the guns is exactly right. Could be wrong. Still, overall I am enjoying it and look forward to what is ahead.

I'm in agreement with Paul. I think the series needed to have more character development prior to jumping to the action. That is what we could have gotten with some time spent showing the characters going through training.

Still... I enjoyed epsiode 2, so I'm of a mind that as things continue the gap in character development will close.

JT

 

[ChrisM]

They didn't call out the location of the fire fight last night like they did in episode 1, but that had to be the October attack on Henderson Field since Chesty was calling the shots.

The big problem the IJA had was cooridnation - the Japanese commanders (Kawaguchi was one, IIRC can't call up the names of the others) jumped off at the wrong time due to the difficulty of navigating the jungle. If they could have jumped off at the same time, with consolidated force - they had a good shot of breking through and re-taking the airfield.

Good episode though - I really liked the bit where Basilone was climbing up the side of the transportand it looked like he was reaching for heaven or an angel.

 

[Chas Argent]

That was Leckie, not Basilone.

 

[ChrisM]

Duh! You're right - thanks Chas!

 

[Khill]

I really enjoyed it (so far) but would have liked to have seen some 1940's USMC training as was done for Paras in Band of Bros.

 

[Jerry Simmons]

I really enjoyed it (so far) but would have liked to have seen some 1940's USMC training as was done for Paras in Band of Bros.

Isn't Sledge about to go to boot camp? Should be showing at least some of the basic training, maybe on part III.

 

[Khill]

Isn't Sledge about to go to boot camp? Should be showing at least some of the basic training, maybe on part III.

Well, we don't have HBO. I just saw re-run of episode 1 in Noreaster hotel. Have to wait