Wall Advantage while occupying a Shellhole hex

[Rindis]

If there was no enemy unit adjacent, there would be no reason to claim WA at this point at all. The unit would automatically have WA across all its hex's walls and hedges (B9.321) unless and until he chooses to forfeit it...

Incorrect. Mandatory WA (B9.323) only applies if there is no positive in-hex TEM. Shellholes are positive in-hex TEM. Therefore a unit in a shellhole hex only has WA if it explicitly claims it (B9.322). Therefore a when an enemy unit moves adjacent, it can immediately claim WA (B9.322 again, and must if Mandatory WA applies), and the only way to prevent that is to have previously claimed WA. B9.321 isn't saying you always have WA, it is merely stating that WA is gained/lost over all possible hexsides at the same time, not individually (outside of DASL).

 

[Binchois]

Incorrect. Mandatory WA (B9.323) only applies if there is no positive in-hex TEM. Shellholes are positive in-hex TEM. Therefore a unit in a shellhole hex only has WA if it explicitly claims it (B9.322). Therefore a when an enemy unit moves adjacent, it can immediately claim WA (B9.322 again, and must if Mandatory WA applies), and the only way to prevent that is to have previously claimed WA. B9.321 isn't saying you always have WA, it is merely stating that WA is gained/lost over all possible hexsides at the same time, not individually (outside of DASL).

Wow! You may be right!

I think I have always assumed that a unit without anyone adjacent has automatic WA over an enemy who subsequently moves adjacent unless and until he claims an in-hex TEM (barring other factors/decisions).

Who knows, these problems/situations don't seem to come up too much in my games, perhaps I got it right in the past! But for now, I've clearly misinterpreted 9.321. Thanks!

 

[Rindis]

Sure thing. The main point of walls/hedges is that if you aren't explicitly claiming WA, you can always choose between hexside and in-hex TEM as long as the enemy also doesn't have WA over your (the target) hex. So the entire deal only comes up when units are adjacent... or if you think they're about to be adjacent, and want to preempt someone else taking it. And most of the time that comes up, you're in OG and Mandatory WA applies, which is why all of this is rare in practice.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Sure thing. The main point of walls/hedges is that if you aren't explicitly claiming WA, you can always choose between hexside and in-hex TEM as long as the enemy also doesn't have WA over your (the target) hex. So the entire deal only comes up when units are adjacent... or if you think they're about to be adjacent, and want to preempt someone else taking it. And most of the time that comes up, you're in OG and Mandatory WA applies, which is why all of this is rare in practice.

Almost correct, except the limiters are when a unit is capable of claiming WA. That is to say, a moving unit may claim WA over a wall/hedge that shares a hexside with an enemy unit in a building if the enemy unit hadn't claimed WA prior-to/during the preceding RPh. The enemy unit may not claim WA during the moving unit's MPH/APh at anytime because the the time to authorized to claim WA has passed and only a moving unit may claim WA during its MPh (B9.322). The opposite is not true however, as one can decline WA at anytime to claim an In-hex TEM [EXC: Of course between an announced shot and its resolution-in most cases: HD vs Claiming an In-Hex TEM being tangentially an exception to the exception].

 

[fanatic+1]

I have frequently claimed WA while in a building hex to deny approaching enemy units WA. You just have to be careful to remember to relinquish WA before any bounding fire or advancing fire is declared.

 

[Vinnie]

I have frequently claimed WA while in a building hex to deny approaching enemy units WA. You just have to be careful to remember to relinquish WA before any bounding fire or advancing fire is declared.

The real problem arises after you are flanked when you have to choose between giving up the wall or holding it and being shot at with no tem by the flanking unit. Of course, if you've been flanked its time to bug out.

 

[von Marwitz]

I have frequently claimed WA while in a building hex to deny approaching enemy units WA. You just have to be careful to remember to relinquish WA before any bounding fire or advancing fire is declared.

This.

It may also be an interesting choice for an AFV - take the +3TEM for the building on TH rolls or rather Hull Down of the Wall?

von Marwitz

 

[Vinnie]

Not an option for an AFV, they cannot gain WA in a hex with positive tem.

9.32 WALL ADVANTAGE (WA): A unit may claim WA over a same level wall/hedge hexside if it is an armed, unbroken ground level unit which is not: a vehicle eligible to receive in-hex TEM of ≥ 1

 

[jrv]

It may also be an interesting choice for an AFV - take the +3TEM for the building on TH rolls or rather Hull Down of the Wall?

A vehicle may not take wall advantage when it is eligible for in-hex TEM [B9.32; EXC: height advantage, cactus patch, olive grove]. However such a vehicle could choose between being Hull Down behind the wall or the stone building TEM when attacked by a non-adjacent firer. Being hull down is usually the better choice. The main reason for desiring to take wall advantage would be to deny it to the enemy.

JR

 

[von Marwitz]

A vehicle may not take wall advantage when it is eligible for in-hex TEM [B9.32; EXC: height advantage, cactus patch, olive grove]. However such a vehicle could choose between being Hull Down behind the wall or the stone building TEM when attacked by a non-adjacent firer. Being hull down is usually the better choice. The main reason for desiring to take wall advantage would be to deny it to the enemy.

JR

I stand corrected.

The interesting thing that remains is that the vehicle can choose between HD and Stone Building TEM.

von Marwitz

 

[Brian W]

The interesting thing that remains is that the vehicle can choose between HD and Stone Building TEM.

Depends on the other TH modifiers. I think the switching point is when the final TH # needed is < a DR4 with the building/woods TEM, take the building/woods and forgo the wall. And if your hull armor cannot be penetrated always take the TEM of course. And if the enemy is going for DI, take the wall.

 

[Eagle4ty]

The part that has me somewhat slightly mystified is when/how does one claim an In-hex TEM vs the HD advantage? Normally one cannot assume a different status once a shot has been announced, is it the same in this case? In other words, if the opponent says "I'm firing on Tank 'A' with a +3TEM (or leaving out the part about the TEM)", has the shot been announced and the Tank unable to claim either HD or in-hex TEM leaving it to the discretion of the firing player to determine? Or, is the correct procedure to say "What is the status of Tank 'A', HD or claiming the TEM?" If, let's say, the Tank "A" player announced "He's HD", the firing player could then say "just checking, no shot." It seems to me at least this is one instance that the target determination must be made following the announcement of the shot.

 

[Brian W]

I believe the shot is announced then the TH modifiers are calculated, so at that point the target announces which to take. Then you roll the dice. The kinda cool thing is it could change from shot to shot as acq is placed.

 

[von Marwitz]

The part that has me somewhat slightly mystified is when/how does one claim an In-hex TEM vs the HD advantage? Normally one cannot assume a different status once a shot has been announced, is it the same in this case?

Imagine a friendly tank and an enemy infantry unit both ADJACENT to a wall. The enemy infantry has WA. A couple of hexes behind the enemy infantry unit along the same hexrow sits an enemy ATG firing on the friendly tank.

Despite not having WA the friendly tank still is considered HD to the ATG.

This is basically the same situation if the friendly tank is within a building behind a wall. But as TEM/benefits are not cumulative in such situations, the tank has to opt for one of the two (only).

I believe the choice has to be made when the shot is announced but before the TH is rolled. At least this is how I have always played it.

von Marwitz