The War Machine - Iwo Jima CG

[Honza]

This is the new thread for my Iwo Jima CG design and playtest. "The War Machine" is a provisional title of the CG. By that stage of the war the Marine amphibious landings were as efficient as a war machine. While the Japanese defenses were a subterranean labrynth as intricate as a war machine. The title sounds right.

I'll start off with a photo of the revised map which has had a few minor changes - hopefully improvements. I'll add more as soon as I start the playtest number two. Playtest number one can be found in the thread "The Meat Grinder - Iwo Jima CG"

The first playtest resulted in an overwhelming Marine victory. The Japanese were too weak. So I have strengthened their force and made some modifications to the rules, and am ready to start again.

 

[Srynerson]

Honza, your work on this project is incredible -- the map is a work of art, you have obviously put a lot of work into the CG rules, and it's far beyond anything I could hope to design myself. That said, I've read through your previous thread beginning to end in one sitting and I would like to respectfully offer one suggestion -- play through this scenario without tweaking the CG rules on the fly. Keep notes about what you think should be changed, obviously, but don't alter the rules during play. That's the only way to really get a feel for how the completed CG will work. As you said, your first campaign game ended in an overwhelming American victory, but recall that during Scenario 2 you stopped the scenario because the Japanese were doing too well and you changed the refit rules to benefit the Americans. You then played with the new refit rules until Scenario 6 when you decided that the changes had unbalanced the game in favor of the Americans, so you further revised the rules again to try to rebalance the game. However, even assuming the last revision produced a refit procedure that was perfectly balanced going forward, the Americans had already had three scenarios to reap the benefits of the "pro-American" refit procedure. If you had left the original refit rules in place, despite the Japanese side's huge success in Scenario 2, maybe the ultimate outcome of the campaign game would have been a lot closer.

 

[Honza]

You may be right. I suspect that this CG will favour the Japanese towards to beginning and the Americans towards to end, once they have had time to build up their units on map. I remember when the CG favoured the Japanese. I reckon it will do so again at the beginning of this CG. I will try and restrain from changing the rules mid flow.

 

[ASRomafan]

Jan, whenever you feel this is ready for the next step and you want external playtesters let me know. We'd like to take a crack at this down the road.

 

[Vinnie]

Jan you need to get some two player time on this one as the very nature of the Japanese defences relies on fooling the marines in the chances they have to take. If the marines can win just by grinding forwards and taking no risks then it's rather unbalanced. The Japanese have to be able to capitalise on the marines choices and counter attack where it's not expected. I don't know if you've vaslised the map but this would be a great playtest tool.

 

[Honza]

Yup, thanks guys. It is still in a very raw state. Its only ever had one playing ever! Plus all the rules are not finalised yet. I need to work on it alone to get it into any state ready for playtesting.

 

[Honza]

It is a project undertaken for fun. I can start getting stressed by it if I'm not careful. As far as making it available for others to play(test), it is nowhere near ready yet. The rules are in their gestation period - and I'd have to write them all down in some legible order if others were going to play it. That would be a huge undertaking in itself! lol.

Still in its infancy.

 

[ASRomafan]

Still in its infancy.

chuckles. Enjoy it while it is young, for soon it will up and start asking for the keys the car and bringing home women with tattoos and earrings through their lips.

if ever you need a baby sitter, or just a firm parental hand to knock some sense into it, just let us know!

 

[Honza]

chuckles. Enjoy it while it is young, for soon it will up and start asking for the keys the car and bringing home women with tattoos and earrings through their lips.

if ever you need a baby sitter, or just a firm parental hand to knock some sense into it, just let us know!

lol Edo. Thankyou kindly.

 

[Honza]

The new playtest has begun. There are a few minor differences. All the Japanese caves and pillboxes are subject to E1.16, even if not in concealment terrain. From what I've been reading it was virtually impossible for the Marines to see the Japanese positions until they voluntarily revealed themselves by firing or movement. The Japanese fortifications were heavily concealed in the sand and rock. I think that justifies keeping the Japanese caves/pillboxes hidden even if not in concealment terrain.

The Japanese have also discovered SKULKING. Every Japanese player turn the Japanese withdraw into the cave complexes and advance back into position after the Marine defensive fire phase. All pillboxes within the boundaries of cave complexes and passageway complexes are ACCESSIBLE to those complexes so they can skulk too.

Obviously Guns cannot skulk, but the crews can - leaving the Gun behind.

In the previous CG the Japanese did not skulk and got badly shot up in the defensive fire phase. The pillboxes were not accessible to cave/passageway complexes before - that is a new SSR - and so they couldn't skulk. The units in caves remained on board too, to give the units in pillboxes fire support.

One cannot advance into difficult terrain into a cave. So the Japanese have to be careful how many PP they are carrying when they skulk otherwise they cannot advance back. Only the .50 cal HMG weighs 5PP. All the other SW weigh 4PP or less. It costs two MF to move into a cave. So generally the Japanese have enough MF to advance back. If the .50 cal are stacked with leaders they can advance back in too.

It is very intricate.

The Marine FB would end up being wasted because all the targets would be skulking underground in the defensive fire phase when they attack. So I am allowing them to attack in the Prep Fire Phase too. They can either attack in the Marine PFPh or in the Marine DFPh - but not both.

Here is a photo of the situation at the beginning of T3.

 

[Honza]

I think that because of the greater HIP for the Japanese, plus the fact that the pillboxes are ACCESSIBLE to cave complexes (and not just connected by a tunnel) which allows the whole OOB to skulk, will mean that the Japanese will have a much greater preservation of their force. This will ensure that the Marines have to work hard to push forward and will create the deadlock situation which was prevalent on Iwo.

I think I may have got the balance right this time. I'm looking forward to a sprawling campaign which goes the whole hog and lasts up to 14-18 CG dates.

Here is another photo of CG date 1, Turn 3.

 

[Honza]

Just to add a note: The pillboxes were made to be accessible to cave/passageway complexes just so that they COULD skulk. In a situation where the cave occupants can skulk but the pillbox occupants can't then all the pillboxes are going to be blasted every Marine defensive fire phase. Which is unrealistic. There was virtually no difference between the caves and pillboxes on Iwo. They were both accessible to underground passageways. The pillboxes were more on 'the surface' of the island, but they were connected to the underground labrynth. If cave occupants can skulk then the pillbox occupants should be able to also.

I will see how skulking changes the emphasis of the CG.

Another difference between this CG and the previous one is that the Japanese have NOT set up their pillboxes on the crest lines. Before, in the previous CG, they used to get Smoked and then peppered with shots by the MTRs until a CH would eliminate the contents.

I have wised up to that Marine tactic and have hidden my pillboxes amongst the rocks and sand where they cannot be seen from lower levels, where all the Marine ordnance is.

If the Marine MTRs can't see the pillboxes then they can't Smoke them in or get a CH on the contents.

 

[ASRomafan]

Nice move Jan. That is not a small minor difference. It will make a big difference It is of course a double edged sword as a designer. You have amped up the realism, the accuracy of it, but most certainly at the cost of playabiiity. Say 'bug hunt' to some players and you will lose them immediately. However I suppose you can look at it the other way and ask how many of those type players might play this anyway?

Making pillboxes/caves subject to E1.16 dueto the desolate terrain there, and the efficiency of the fortifications goes a long way to offsetting the massive firepower enjoyed by the americans. Again though, it does at the cost of playability. The Peleliu mega scenario was the same way, not everyone will dig having to deal with a large OOB that is HIP and will generally stay HIP until searched or they open fire but it goes a long way to recreating the nature of the fighting. Excellent modification and no doubt you'll see how that alters the play

 

[Vinnie]

A couple of things to consider. If the gun crew skulls do you give them an automatic recrew of the gun?
Suicide creek brought in pill box cellars. Could you use these along with the tunnels that Japanese normally have to extend the survivability of the defenders?

 

[jrv]

Obviously Guns cannot skulk, but the crews can - leaving the Gun behind.

The problem for Gun crews is that they have to recover the Gun again, with a 1 in 6 chance of failure. It's a trade off.

JR

 

[Honza]

A couple of things to consider. If the gun crew skulls do you give them an automatic recrew of the gun?
Suicide creek brought in pill box cellars. Could you use these along with the tunnels that Japanese normally have to extend the survivability of the defenders?

Hi Vinnie,

I thought about the cellars rule from Suicide Creek, but decided against it because it was too fiddly. It would basically create another location under the pillbox location. There would be too many possible locations which would confuse things. If I keep it simple then there is the pillbox/cave location and the cave/passageway complex location. If the cellers were being used then there would be pillbox, cave, cellar, cave complex, passageway complex all with seperate locations PLUS the tunnels from the pillboxes! I was not sure to which location the tunnels would connect. To the pillbox or the cellar? Or both? Plus I was worried about the Marines entering the Pillbox and trying to place DCs on the cellar occupants - they would blow themselves sky high doing that! lol. Plus they would have to CONTROL the cellar too....all much too complicated in the end.

Suicide Creek is different because there are no cave complexes or tunnels to worry about. It is kept simple that way.

 

[Honza]

The problem for Gun crews is that they have to recover the Gun again, with a 1 in 6 chance of failure. It's a trade off.

JR

That has just happened in the CG. A crew with a 105 ART gun rolled a 6 in its recovery attempt after skulking. It is now left without possession of the Gun.

The Gun crews can skulk, but Ordnance can still fire on the cave in hope of a CH on the unpossessed Gun. This is allowed. A CH by a MTR would eliminate the Gun. So effectively the Gun crew skulking is only half protection. It protects the crew from infantry and MG fire but not the Gun from MTR CH's.

I'm wondering about what Vinnie said about automatic recovery of the Gun. But I think ultimately it is best not to introduce too many SSR's. There is a ton of them in this CG already.

 

[Honza]

You have amped up the realism, the accuracy of it, but most certainly at the cost of playabiiity.

Excellent modification and no doubt you'll see how that alters the play

When skulking I don't physically move the pieces. I just mark the cave with a spare marker counter - I use TI counters at the moment. It is too much hassle moving all the pieces from the board into the complexes. So an appropriate marker which shows that the unit has withdrawn into the complex is enough. The Japanese player turn passes very quickly. No prep fire, and no Marine defensive fire, and no movement. There are exceptions of course, but that is how it goes.

Effectively the CG will be played out in the Marine Player Turns, with the Japanese Player Turns being fairly idle. With the exception of OBA and Mortar Spotters and so on. It is very playable that way......long Marine Turns and short Japanese Turns.

 

[ASRomafan]

When skulking I don't physically move the pieces. I just mark the cave with a spare marker counter - I use TI counters at the moment. It is too much hassle moving all the pieces from the board into the complexes. So an appropriate marker which shows that the unit has withdrawn into the complex is enough. The Japanese player turn passes very quickly. No prep fire, and no Marine defensive fire, and no movement. There are exceptions of course, but that is how it goes.

Effectively the CG will be played out in the Marine Player Turns, with the Japanese Player Turns being fairly idle. With the exception of OBA and Mortar Spotters and so on. It is very playable that way......long Marine Turns and short Japanese Turns.

Exactly Jan! That is exactly how it should play, Japanese turns will pass quickly, to move is to give away positions and/or drop HIP before being able to hit the American as hard as possible and bring upon the Japanese all that massive firepower without exacting a price. Thus negating the one distinct advantage they have there. Iwo was certainly a bug hunt, and a recreation of the battle has to be one or it isn't a good representation of the battle.

However playable it might be in the solo mode, for those that are playing FtF, a game of Iwo's scope might well stretch the bounds of playability. Perhaps for all but the truly ASL insane that enjoy such bookkeeping and attention to detail. I assume this is larger in scope in terms of squads, ordinance, and fortifications than the mega Peleliu scenario, we played that several times earlier this year and that took us 3 legal pad PAGES of notes on HIP units and fortifications. It was a hell of a lot of fun, and most certainly a challenge, but was it something you'd say was easily playable? Not in the least. If one didn't enjoy those types of scenarios/CG's then you could see players easily burning/dropping out, and still more not even wanting to try it knowing what kind of game awaits them. Not every player will want to deal with that, however that shouldn't IMO stop you from trying to best recreate what the fighting there might have been like. The only way to do that is to make it the bug hunt that it was. However well it might play in solo, it will be no walk in the park for FtF playing. It's like JP and I joked during creation of the Berlin CG, I'd be surprised if more than 10 people play the damn thing, however it is for those 10 that we tried to create the biggest, baddest and most intense CG that we could that accurately recreated the fighting in Berlin.

 

[Honza]

Well said Edo!

It certainly will be much more complicated with two players, when the Japanese is trying to keep his positions secret. I have all the Japanese units set up on board under black No Move counters which indicate that the Marines can't see them - they are HIP. If this was a FtF game the board would be empty of Japanese altogether, except for the 10 or so revealed units. There would be *pages* of notes of the HIP Japanese force.

There are a few things one can do to SIMPLIFY this issue. In the first place I have divided the map up into sectors. These sectors are basically areas within the road system. There are 17 sectors in total, from A - Q each one encircled by a road. The HIP notes could be kept for each sector. So that if the battle was raging between 3 sectors (say A, B & C) then the defenders notes could indicate which HIP units are in sectors A, B, and C.

Such as sector A has 5 HIP caves and 4 HIP pillboxes in the following hexes.....
Sector B has 6 HIP caves and 7 HIP pillboxes in the following hexes....

and so on.

Another thing that can be done is for the Japanese player to set up some HIP units on board under concealment counters of a different nationality to indicate that they are HIP. The units would be HIP but would be placed onboard to reduce the need for notes. There would need to be some rules introduced to protect the HIP units from the Marine player. Such as no 'recon by fire' into those hexes. They would be considered to be off-map until they are activated. A bit like RESERVE units in RB.

This would give the Marine player knowledge of where the Japanese are set up. But he would not know what is set up where. He would be aware of the general location of units; but nothing of the composition of those units. This would make the game much more playable at the expense of FOW.

The Japanese player could keep notes of some of his units which he keeps OFFBOARD, mixed with those he has placed ONBOARD. This would keep the Marine player guessing - and may introduce a new element to the game as he would have to try and guess the true strength of the defenses in each area.

Of course if one was going to play on VASL then the HIP problem would not be an issue, because the VASL program allows the defender to see his HIP units while the attacker can not.

There are ways around the big problems!

But you are certainly right about this game being for the minority. For the 'ASL insane' as you put it, lol.

I for one am definitely going to try and play your Berlin CG V one day. Looking forward to it!