The Meat Grinder - Iwo Jima CG

[Honza]

Honza,feel like selling me a copy of your map????

If not,it is beautiful.

That is a possibility. I'd give you a copy for free. The thing is that I need to scan it first. But at the moment it is under plexiglass and has got the CG in full swing on it. When the map is not being used I will scan it and make the files available to those who want it.

 

[Honza]

Jan, came back to the beginning of the thread to check a few things out.


Is this still 20 CG dates in length? If so, have you given any thought to shortening it, or possibly breaking it up into 2 separate, perhaps linkable ones. That is imposing to say the least :laugh:

The CG is now 16-18 CG dates in length. The Americans have 27 infantry coy and 9 assault engineer platoons = 30 inf coy. The Japanese have 18 infantry coy and 6 assault engineer platoons = 20 infantry coy. Both sides have got available to them stacks of MG platoons, Guns platoons etc. which bump the numbers up. But generally speaking it is 30 Marine Coy to 20 Japanese Coy.

I worked out the numbers the other day. Including crews and HS etc. the Marines have about 420 squad equivalents available to them (about 4500 men) and the Japanese have 320 squad equivalents available (about 3400 men).

So the SE ratio is 4 Marine to 3 Japanese.

The original version when I first started the CG was just too big.

 

[Honza]

That is a possibility. I'd give you a copy for free. The thing is that I need to scan it first. But at the moment it is under plexiglass and has got the CG in full swing on it. When the map is not being used I will scan it and make the files available to those who want it.

It would be nice to make this CG available to those who want it. The map files could be placed in the download section of this forum. The various special rules and OOB etc. could be added as a file too. But its going to take me time to sort it all out.

 

[ASRomafan]

It would be nice to make this CG available to those who want it. The map files could be placed in the download section of this forum. The various special rules and OOB etc. could be added as a file too. But its going to take me time to sort it all out.

I would definitely love to look at it! No hurry, just when/if you do just let us know. Perhaps you'll be pleasantly surprised how much feedback you'll get. I know the feedback and support we got helped immeasurably, and our task was much simpler than yours . It didn't create legions of play-testers willing to lay down weeks and weeks of their ASL time, but every bit of feedback does help.

 

[thedrake]

Most generous of you to offer the map and files for download.

May want to think about adding in something to either the map and/or files showing ownership so wont get pirated/sold on ebay by someone else claiming it is theirs.

Looking forward to viewing your work on this CG.

Tried to Rep you again but gotta wait--someone catch him for me please,for his generosity???

Thx,
Mark

 

[Nadir_E]

...Tried to Rep you again but gotta wait--someone catch him for me please,for his generosity???

Mission accomplished.

Your generosity, Jan, reminds me of Tim Hunsdorfer's with his Achtung! Panzer! CG many moons ago. Good on ya!

-N

 

[Honza]

Thanks Guys. I'm not blessed with a business type mind. A bit of a dreamer really. I get lost in copyright, business and technological issues. Far too right brained for my own good. Certainly I would not want this CG to be abused by pirating and reselling on eBay. It is something I will have to consider. I might have to maintain control of the files and make them available to those who approach me directly. I'm sure the copyright would get abused eventually - such things often crop up sometime.

But that is all to worry about in the future.

 

[Honza]

My dilemma concerning this CG is whether I should try and take it the whole hog and have it published by an ASL producer. This would mean it would have a printed map and rules and possibly counters too. It would mean going down the same route as other ASL designers have gone by approaching a publisher such as MMP to publish the module for them.

The other possibility is to make this CG a public file with a publicly owned copyright (I'm not sure if that is possible) and basically make the CG available as free files on the internet or by post. If the copyright of this CG was made public then no one would have to pay for it and trying to sell it on eBay would be a waste of time if the files had 'Public Domain' written all over them.

The free, public approach is the easier option. But I'm not sure if it is the right one. Basically I started this CG for fun. It was never my intention to begin with to publish. The fact that people are interested in it is great, but it then presents me with the dilemma of how to make it available.

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

Honza, if you go the public route I suggest checking out the various GNU licenses. These are well established and it should make your rights and everyone else's pretty clear. Granted, they're more geared towards software, but what is not software these days?

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/

Mike S

 

[Honza]

Honza, if you go the public route I suggest checking out the various GNU licenses. These are well established and it should make your rights and everyone else's pretty clear. Granted, they're more geared towards software, but what is not software these days?

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/

Mike S

Thanks Mike. That is the sort of directional advice I need. I'll check it out.

 

[Honza]

"Free Documentation License" - sounds about right. :thumup:

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

"Free Documentation License" - sounds about right. :thumup:

Cool. I still think you should copyright it though. I don't think you should worry about some guy trying to sell the map he downloaded for free on ebay. Rather you want to reduce the chance someone decides to package all of the stuff up and sell it as a game or whatnot. All you'll need to do is put the copyright on the map and pages and your g2g.

MikeS

 

[Gunner Scott]

Hi ya-

Personally, I think you should send it to one of the ASL producers, MMP would be your best bet for a proffessional presentation and in official format. The only drawback being that it will be around 10 years before it see's the light of day. BfP is another choice, not in official format but I'd say maybe a 2 to 3 year wait. And of course theres CH! which have a nice presentation themselves but you will have to really make sure your project is tight before sending it to CH! and I'm sure they will be the quickest in publishing your work.


Scott

 

[ASRomafan]

Hi ya-

Personally, I think you should send it to one of the ASL producers, MMP would be your best bet for a proffessional presentation and in official format. The only drawback being that it will be around 10 years before it see's the light of day. BfP is another choice, not in official format but I'd say maybe a 2 to 3 year wait. And of course theres CH! which have a nice presentation themselves but you will have to really make sure your project is tight before sending it to CH! and I'm sure they will be the quickest in publishing your work.


Scott

that is why I thought CH might be best for him if he does choose to go that route. It seems Jan is committed to making sure it is tight and not relying of anyone to do it for him. That is why CH can be so quick about it, if it is sent there, it better be ready. One could argue if it's up to CH to make it tight and make it right, I not so sure they really are, they could be seen as the outlet. It could be argued that is the designer that is responsible for making sure the damn thing is playable and has the kinks worked out. That I'm sure could be a whole subject for debate. Then there is the gamer/re-creationist angle that I like to ramble on about. This is talior made product for the re-creational player. Much like BRT was. His seems to be a product like his is perfect for CH and types the customers it attracts. If Jan didn't like an aspect of it down the road, or later decided he could improve it. CH has shown the willingness to improve it and not just forget about it.

 

[Honza]

Don't forget that CH have Darrells Iwo Jima trilogy - of which UV is only the first - and they don't seem too keen to publish it. Ray is a bit sceptical about cave intensive modules because they don't sell well. CH would be up to their necks in Iwo Jima modules. I think I should let them publish Darrells stuff first. I'd prefer to go to BFP or MMP anyway.

 

[Honza]

Cool. I still think you should copyright it though. I don't think you should worry about some guy trying to sell the map he downloaded for free on ebay. Rather you want to reduce the chance someone decides to package all of the stuff up and sell it as a game or whatnot. All you'll need to do is put the copyright on the map and pages and your g2g.

MikeS

Thanks Mike. What is a g2g?

You have given me food for thought.

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

Thanks Mike. What is a g2g?

You have given me food for thought.

g2g = good to go.

Glad I could help. Of course I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV. In the long run, I would definitely recommend a chat with a lawyer before you make any decision.

It's great to hear that you want to give this stuff away; but you should definitely protect yourself from allowing others to really profit from your work. If anyone should make money from this project, it should be you.

MikeS

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

g2g = good to go.

Glad I could help. Of course I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV. In the long run, I would definitely recommend a chat with a lawyer before you make any decision.

It's great to hear that you want to give this stuff away; but you should definitely protect yourself from allowing others to really profit from your work. If anyone should make money from this project, it should be you.

MikeS

A big +1 on this. If you can safely make it public, you're a big boy, that's your call. But you definitely want to talk to a lawyer so you don't accidentally end up giving it to someone else who'll then sell it.

S

 

[ASRomafan]

Don't forget that CH have Darrells Iwo Jima trilogy - of which UV is only the first - and they don't seem too keen to publish it. Ray is a bit sceptical about cave intensive modules because they don't sell well. CH would be up to their necks in Iwo Jima modules. I think I should let them publish Darrells stuff first. I'd prefer to go to BFP or MMP anyway.

That makes good sense. I'm sure you are probably right about that.

 

[Honza]

The 25th Feb scenario has finished. I've done the refit phase for the 26th Feb scenario. Including all the purchases and set up. The 26th is the 8th scenario. It is now beyond the halway mark through the CG. I think there will be 14 CG dates in total.

I've got some interesting stats.

The Marines have purchased 17 Infantry Coy to date. 18 if you include the 3 AE pltns. That is a total of 216 squads. They have purchased 4 Tank Pltns - 20 Shermans. Including 4 FT tanks. 8 Shermans are now burning wrecks. Many more have been recovered, repaired and sent back into the action.
9x FB RG. A total of 27 FB. Nine each with Napalm, Bombs and Rockets.
10x OBA/NOBA modules.
5x MG platoons. Total 10x 50.cal and 10x HMG
2x 105 Art Platoons. (four in each pltn)
3x 81mm MTR platoons. (four in each pltn)
Sniper increase x2 (current SAN 5)
Fort x3 (120 FPP)

Meanwhile the Japanese have purchased 9 Infantry Coy, plus one AE pltn. A total of 112 Squads.
One dug in AFV pltn (3x type 95 Ha Go).
8 MG platoon. (A total of 32 MG's 16x MMG, 8x HMG, 8x .50 cal)
10 Gun platoons (A total of 30 Guns - a mixture of AA, Art, AT, Inf and MTR varieties)
Sniper Increase x3 (current SAN 5)
9 OBA modules
1 Spigot MTR platoon (2x Spigot MTRS)
1x Leader group (3x extra Leaders)
2x Crew platoon (8x extra crews)
Fort x64 (a whopping 6400 FPP)
A set up second option x1

Some interesting events from the last scenario were that 3 AFV were destroyed by CH's. One Sherman went down to a harrasing fire FFE CH. One Sherman was destroyed by a 75mm ART Gun CH. A Japanese dug in Ha Go was eliminated by a Baz CH.

The Sherman Dozer was hit from behind by a 37L AT Gun and eliminated. The AT Gun was using a reverse slope defense. It was set up in the Turkey Knob and hit the Dozer as he was moving along Charlie Dog Ridge. The Dozer ignored the Gun because it was malf'd. But it repaired and got him.

A Marine 105 Art Gun scored a CH on a cave and eliminated it along with its contents.

Two Marine 10-2 leaders were KIA'd by the Japanese sniper.

A Marine 9-2 went berserk and took three 768's with him on a charge. The Japanese 105 ART Gun CR'd the three squads with a decent hit. But they went on to capture a pillbox.

The battle has moved to the Meat Grinder proper now. The village of Minami, the Turkey Knob, The Amphitheatre, the Airstrip and Hill 382 are all under Marine attack now. This cluster of terrain features were where the real Meat Grinder battle took place in '45.

The Airstrip has been crossed on the west side, and the western half of Charlie Dog Ridge has been captured.

I'll post a photo of the set up for scenario #8 later on. Then I'm packing up for a while to do some playtesting for someone else.