Suicide Creek Central....

[EagleIV]

Suicide Creek questions

We are about to start Suicide Creek and I have a question.

Per SC1.4 are Units in reserve allowed to setup in free foxholes?

 

[Larry]

Re: Suicide Creek questions

there does not appear to be any limitation from SC1.4 in CG6. I would say that 1.4 survives CG6 because it was not overruled even implicitly.

 

[EagleIV]

Re: Suicide Creek questions

The real question is are reserves Infantry or do they not exist during set up?

 

[John McDiarmid]

Suicide Creek question

As the rules allow for each retained hero (4.7112) to battle harden an MMC what do the Japanese Tank Hunter Hero's do?

Technically the THH is a sub-set of the regular hero rules and if set up on board (HIP allowed in 1944) can they be used battle harden Japanese troops at scenario end?

Personally I would think not, but there is no exception in the wording limiting the use of THH for this admitedly sleazy purpose.

On a separate clarification note, are reduced Japanese squads are still retained in that state for the next scenario?

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Suicide Creek question

THH were not intended to BH MMC. I'll review what we've got in the rules for clarification. As to the second question "striped" squads remain in that status. Enjoy!

 

[Chas Argent]

Re: Suicide Creek question

I would disagree that a T-H Hero has anything to do with a "regular" A15.2 hero. G1.42 does not draw a connection between the two, and G1.423 clearly distinguishes that a T-H Hero does not have "normal" heroic traits. Therefore I don't believe that a T-H Hero has anything to do with Refit Phase step 4.7112.

I agree with Darrell that striped Japanese MMC should remain that way. There is no mechanism in the RePh to "un-stripe" them.

 

[Gunner Scott]

Re: Suicide Creek question

Hi-

Why would they remain in striped status? They are assumed to get new blood IE replacements so I would think that the striped squad is returned to its full value.

Scott

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Suicide Creek question

I agree with Darrell that striped Japanese MMC should remain that way. There is no mechanism in the RePh to "un-stripe" them.

More importantly (IMO), there is nothing in the SC rules that say that their Step-Reduced status is changed in any way (at least not what I could see).

 

[Aavar]

Re: Suicide Creek question

I would disagree that a T-H Hero has anything to do with a "regular" A15.2 hero. G1.42 does not draw a connection between the two, and G1.423 clearly distinguishes that a T-H Hero does not have "normal" heroic traits. Therefore I don't believe that a T-H Hero has anything to do with Refit Phase step 4.7112.

I agree with Darrell that striped Japanese MMC should remain that way. There is no mechanism in the RePh to "un-stripe" them.

The text of 1.42 is HEROES : Japanese Heroes can be created via Heat of Battle(A15.1) In addition, Japanese squads and HS may create "Suicide" heroes.
1.421 then goes on to descride the "suicude" hero rules - 1.421 TANK-HUNTER (T-H) HEROES.
I notice 1.421 is a sub-rule of 1.42 so I take this as T-H Heroes are Heroes althoug heroes with specific rules for them and in the refit phase 4.7112 it just mention heroes and does not spricifically exclude t-h heroes.

Tarawa and Edson's ridge have the same wording for that part of the refit page.

Speaking of TH heroes in the Campaigns, If they are not removed to battle harden a MMC then are they must be able to be retained cause i dont believe there is anywhere it says that they are removed in any of the refit phase steps.

 

[John McDiarmid]

Re: Suicide Creek question

However, if they are retained (on-map and HIP) their challenge is that the Japanese are still limited to the maximum # of THH available. Interesting how this could be more retained THH than they are actually allowed to create in a scenario.

 

[ejmcglinn]

Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

Me and my buddy are going to start playing J136, Muddy Mayhem, tomorrow night, and I have a question about the pillboxes.

Do they setup HIP? According to the rules they do, and though the SC SSR states that once revealed, PB stay revealed, it doesn't say anything about starting in sight for some scenarios. Yet the historical background certainly implies that the Marines know where they are, as they have been fighting over the creek for a couple of days.

So, should they start HIP or not? I'm excited to start this scenario - it looks like a brutal struggle for both sides, and I don't want to give one side an unintended advantage.

Thanks

Ed

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

Me and my buddy are going to start playing J136, Muddy Mayhem, tomorrow night, and I have a question about the pillboxes.

Do they setup HIP? According to the rules they do, and though the SC SSR states that once revealed, PB stay revealed, it doesn't say anything about starting in sight for some scenarios. Yet the historical background certainly implies that the Marines know where they are, as they have been fighting over the creek for a couple of days.

So, should they start HIP or not? I'm excited to start this scenario - it looks like a brutal struggle for both sides, and I don't want to give one side an unintended advantage.

They can set up HIP - like most other Fortifications.

 

[rdw5150]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

I think they are also not revealed until someone searches or stumbles on to them as its PTO and Japanese Pillboxes...... check the chapter G rules, but, just because someone has LOS to them, might not necessarily mean they are revealed....

then again, I may have it ass backwards

Peace

Roger

 

[ejmcglinn]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

No, I think according to the Chapter G rules, they are definitely hidden. I just want to make sure I am not either missing or mis-intrepeting a SC SSR whereby they would start revealed, since that is what the historical background, sort of, implies...

 

[rdw5150]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

No, I think according to the Chapter G rules, they are definitely hidden. I just want to make sure I am not either missing or mis-interpreting a SC SSR whereby they would start revealed, since that is what the historical background, sort of, implies...

I think that rule is there mainly for the CG, where they are not re-Hipped (with their occupants) between scenarios.

Also, check chapter G on the occupants as I think they are set up HIP as well and do not count as the 10% allowed to Japanese

Peace

Roger

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

No, I think according to the Chapter G rules, they are definitely hidden. I just want to make sure I am not either missing or mis-intrepeting a SC SSR whereby they would start revealed, since that is what the historical background, sort of, implies...

Doesn't the CG start with the Marines stumbling on to the previously-undiscovered-creek ?

 

[ejmcglinn]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

Doesn't the CG start with the Marines stumbling on to the previously-undiscovered-creek ?

The CG does, but we are playing one of the six scenarios, which simulates the end of the battle, with the Marines having already built corduroy roads and created two fords across the creek, and make their final attempt to get across in the face of Japanese resistance. Since this particular scenario covers the end of the battle, by when I'd think the Marines would know where the pillboxes are, I thought maybe they were supposed to set up revealed (but their contents would still be HIP).

 

[Chas Argent]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

Barring an SSR to the contrary, the PBs would still get to set up using HIP.

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

Yep, they start the scenario HIP. Enjoy.

 

[ejmcglinn]

Re: Suicide Creek Scenarios and Pillboxes

Alrighty, thanks for the feedback one and all.