Should Out-of-Print Scenarios be freely available?

Psuderman

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Ok, this will be MY last word on the subject. I appreciate everyone's comments here, because they have been interesting to me. Furthermore, I think that everybody's ideas are valid - even mine! They may not be valid at the same time, mind you :wink:

So here it is, and I'm going to focus on my main point, which is that there should be an archive of out-of-print ASL scenarios, widely distributed. Why? So that those scenarios will always be there.

I love ASL, and support it. Sure I moan about lack of new content in FKaC and moan about the cost of AoO, but so do a lot of people, and in the end, I still shell out for them. I have every core module, the DASLs, and most of the HASLs and HS's. I've paid money, like all of us.

I don't want things to vanish. For example, Tim Kitchen's DYO Assistant, a program designed to assist with the purchasing of forces in DYO games. It's mentioned in the ASL FAQ - it does not exist on the net. I spent three days SOLID trying any number of search engines to cough up a location for that puppy - no luck. (More on this later)

I don't want the same thing to happen with some of these (presumably) great home-grown scenario packs. Things CAN vanish, and I'm using Tim Kitchen's DYO Assistant as an example. When things like that vanish, it's my opinion that the whole ASL community loses. Perhaps you don't play DYO games. Fine, no problem. But it seems certain that someone else in the future WILL want to play DYO games - why should that future person be denied this tool, which once existed?

I imagine an ASL library - with every scenario ever made stored safely therein. The more copies that exist in different people's hands decrease the chances of that scenario ever being lost.

Mr. Pitcavage - I doff my hat to you. Your website is one of the very best ASL web sites out there. Your play aids are well done and much used by many, including me! You are providing a true service to the ASL community. May I say that you have misread my motives in this matter - you felt that "I want something for nothing," while I would say that "I want something for everyone, forever."

I agree with you that it is the author's choice of whether or not to give away their materials - my opinion of that, anyway, has changed since beginning this discussion. I hope that if the TOT folks decide to release their scenarios into the public domain, you will not think any worse of them, even though you paid good money for their scenarios.

And in fact it is to you and your website that will address the end of my comments, by returning to Tim Kitchen's DYO Assistant. I had the privilege of talking to Mr. Kitchen about his program. He most graciously decided then and there to release his (formerly shareware) program into the public domain as freeware. Would you consider hosting this freeware program on your web site as another playaid?

Thanks everyone,

Paul out
 

pryoung

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Paul, congratulations on a very satisfactory resolution to your search, and if Mark is unable to post it, let me know and I'll be glad to host it. However, I must point out that the approach you used is what should be used, that is contacting the designer and asking what they'll permit. Unfortunately, your use of "abandonware" as an analogy implied something completely the opposite of that approach. I too regret the number of sites that have gone missing over the last several years, and after finding a couple of old articles through the internet archive recently, I've contemplated whether an archive could be created of no longer available articles from the ASL web. I wouldn't do it however without the express permission of the authors. The approach you took with Tim is right on, though, and exactly how any such desire to have that which is no longer available should be approached.

Pete
 

Pitman

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Re the DYO program: e-mail me the details. I can probably host it.
 

byouse

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I'm the current high bid on this. I am very curious to win this and see what format this is, as the seller doesn't really say.

There is certainly no law if he's breaking up sets to pieces and selling them that way (no different than you or me selling a game) but it's a whole different ballgame if I win and receive a CD.
 

Johnny Canuck

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Brian Y. said:
I'm the current high bid on this. I am very curious to win this and see what format this is, as the seller doesn't really say.

There is certainly no law if he's breaking up sets to pieces and selling them that way (no different than you or me selling a game) but it's a whole different ballgame if I win and receive a CD.
Good luck.

I'm sticking to originals, and hope to complete the basic MMP/AH module set within 1 year of starting out (with ASL).

All I need now are Gung Ho, Partisan and Doomed Batallions. So close, and yet so overbudget.
 

SamB

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Brian,

The seller's description describes the scenarios as "Freeware" and says he's done all the "work" so you don't have to.

This doesn't sound like he's selling origians to me.
 

Bryan Holtby

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This set is for game players not collectors as these are not the orignal collectable scenario cards. All of the information contained in this set is 'Freeware' that has been collected and compiled over the years. We've done all the work, so you don't have to.
these are not the orignal collectable scenario cards
This statement by the seller pretty much seals it. He is pirating for sure. I wonder how many copies he has sold or made for resell.

It would be interesting to see how Hasbro/MMP pursues this obvious copyright violation against an individual (although the 'We've done all the work' statement makes me think there is more than one person) who is clearly in it for the money and not for the sake of the hobby.
 

byouse

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We'll do what we do in every other instance where this is pointed out to us. We'll have our attorney draft a letter and send it to ebay requesting that they stop this person from stealing our legally licensed IP and selling it. Sometimes it works. Most of the time it doesnt, because Ebay has no interest in people not selling stuff, even stolen stuff.

Mostly, it wastes my time since i'll have to be the one to deal with this. And it'll take an hour or two. So that's like another hour or two that AOO layout is delayed.

And that's only one auction.

You wonder why products take a long time? Stuff gets in the way.

Brian
 

Psuderman

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Note to all:

That Paul on Ebay is NOT, repeat NOT me. A coincidence merely, I assure you!

There is also a dude who sells the ASL GAP program, over and over and over. A friend of mine owns an original copy of this, and his disk label looks nothing like the disk label on the ebay picture.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3163912877&category=2537

is the one up currently. At 10+ bucks a pop, too...

Paul
 

amuller

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Brian,

While you are here......

Any chance that that an OOP download archive might be created?

Obviously there is some interest... Provided its done legally with MMP's full support

AJ
 

Anonymous

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Psuderman said:
Phemur,



Like I just said... I want to pay for them, but they are not for sale! If they are not for sale, they should be freely available!

This is a ridiculous statement. EVERYTHING is for sale in a free market. If you want it bad enough, you can find it tomorrow. If you want to buy the TOT stuff, just put the word out and let people know what you're willing to pay. Assuming you really want it badly enough and you're willing to put your money where your mouth is, I'm sure you'll find a seller.

Jeff
 

ASLgrognard

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Interesting topic - I wanted to make a comment on

There is a seller (not naming but feedback is close to 1000) who is continously selling WCW items and VFTT items (specifically the aircraft counters). I've held off on bidding as I get a strong feel that these are counterfeited. Any comments. Any buyers who can report on the quality.

Thank You
 

PZchala

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I thought all VFTT were available as free downloads at the VFTT web site.
I vaguely recall when the aircraft "counters" came out, but were they actual counters or were they something that needed assembly?

At one time the WCW stuff was available to order from the WCW website, also.
 

PZchala

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At one time the WCW stuff was available to order from the WCW website, also.
I am thinking of their early Don Con items, here. ASL Stuff, ASL Junk, etc., not their scenario pack.
 

ASLgrognard

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VFTT

The counters are an unmounted sheet. I just note that the same person keeps selling it over and over again.
 
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