Should Out-of-Print Scenarios be freely available?

dreenstra

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
584
Reaction score
99
Location
Atlanta, GA
Country
llUnited States
ericblick said:
Interesting digression into copyright, patent and inheritance.

I vote for passing on the rights at creator's death. If this means that the incentive to create goes away as the grim reaper approaches, well, I would suggest that the creation is merely a $ making act and not worth the effort.

The family is subject to the vagaries of fate, as we all are. If the holder of the copyright/ patent is able to provide for them with the income collected while they are alive, great. Otherwise, it's off to work we go...

I admit that I am a bit radical when it comes to inheritance. The picture of families that have a zillion dollars and all of the power and influence that represents when they have NONE of the interest or talent that their benefactor possessed is terrible social policy, imo. (See W)
Here's a new picture for you, pal: http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1972361

In case the link doesn't work, allow me to summarize: On Tuesday, Mattie Stepanek died at the age of 13 from a rare form of muscular dystrophy. This disease had already taken the lives of his three older siblings and his mother continues to suffer from its effects. Mattie was a talented young poet, having already published four books of poems and he touched many people by facing his disease with strength and courage.

According to your viewpoint, his family should now lose the revenue from the sale of these books? Revenue that they are likely using to pay for part of Mattie's and his mother's considerable medical bills? Oh, that's right, you say they're "subject to the vagaries of fate, as we all are". I'd say this family has suffered enough from the "vagaries of fate".

Just wanted to remind you while you're shooting your mouth off about "families that have a zillion dollars" that the rest of us live in the real world. Lots of shades of gray here. Come down from your ivory tower sometime and try it.

Dave Reenstra
 

ericblick

Recruit
Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Location
NE Pennsylvania
Country
llUnited States
? Revenue that they are likely using to pay for part of Mattie's and his mother's considerable medical bills? Oh, that's right, you say they're "subject to the vagaries of fate, as we all are". I'd say this family has suffered enough from the "vagaries of fate".


Oh you simplistic nard. Please don't assume anything beyond my words.

I think that medical care for EVERYONE is something desireable. If it was available ALL kids with debilitating conditions would be taken care of and they wouldn't need to be exceptional writers.

Shame on you for pulling the sick child story to gather sympathy.


And by the way, I have spent the past 24 years of my life working with the disabled. Because I put my money where my mouth is, that's why.

Come down from your ivory tower sometime and try it.

No ivory tower. Real life. Come help us in the trenches.

This whole thing started with a semi-serious post about copyright. It ends with a pathetic attempt to use an anecdote about a tragic event to bolster a couple of insults.

Nice...

Enough already. Feel free to get the last word if you feel the need.

Steve
 

Brian W

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,216
Reaction score
1,196
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
ericblick said:
I think you are misspelling karma, although my sanskrit is pretty poor (only one semester).

For all you guys supporting copyrights, mosey on over to eBay and tell them that selling photo-copied ASL scenarios like Scott Holst is doing is wrong. The relevant auctions are 5906195939 and 5905477291.
 

ASLgrognard

Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
46
Reaction score
0
Country
llUnited States
LOL don't get me started

He does it all the time, and does not seem to care. In reply to a prior post of mine, he argues that he is serving the ASL community. He, of couse, is raking in money illegally, but that is a fringe benefit of illegal activities. LOL, maybe he's using all the cash to finance the publication of new ASL scenarios. A philanthropist....LOL. He does seem to enjoy flaunting it with Critical Hit, maybe we should flood CH's corporate office with emails of the ebay listings in question.

Sooner or later someone will take him to task. Hopefully MMP will bare their fangs and strike.
 

AdrianE

Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
779
Reaction score
74
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
Country
llCanada
ASL Grognard

If you review the auctions carefully, none of MMP's work is involved.

In the first one, the bonus is a copy of the hero PAX 1 scenarios that he reworked into a ASL standard format.

In the second case he is giving away a "copy" of TOT1 that someone ELSE duplicated and sold to him. What should he do here?

In the past he has added extras that were his work. He provided ASL standard format counters for some CH work. He posted elsewhere on the process he followed.

Blame Scott for things he actually does (like trolling) not photcopying scenarios. However you also have to give him credit for the things he does do ... like try to get his scenarios available to a wider audience (see posts earlier in this thread).

This particular thread has devolved into the typical ASL IP issues thread. The ill-informed are arguing about the finer points of IP law. It is a situation with no possible value added outcome. No amount of yammering by ASL players on some obscure board is going to change the relevant laws. The other thing to remember is that IP law varies from country to country. What is allowable in one country is not in another. ASL happens to span international boundaries.


To bring this thread back on topic:
I believe that the copyright holders of long out of print ASL material (like OAF, TOT) should be encouraged by the ASL community to donate their works to the public domain. Those that do so should be recognized and thanked. Note that a good number of the ASLUG scenarios have been donated.

Now should the copyright holders decline to do so, we should respect their decision and not copy their work. We can however lobby them repeatedly to change their minds.

Adrian
 

jwise

Recruit
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
ericblick said:
This whole thing started with a semi-serious post about copyright. It ends with a pathetic attempt to use an anecdote about a tragic event to bolster a couple of insults.
Actually, the whole thing started with a discussion of copyright law until you started trying to shoehorn your sophomoric eat-the-rich lefty politics into the discussion.

But thanks for playing. I'm standing by my guess of `college student', by the way. :)
 

Gunner Scott

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
13,048
Reaction score
1,679
Location
Chicago, IL
Country
llUnited States
Hi-

Thanks Adrian for the kind words.

As for my auctions, if you have not noticed, the items I am getting rid of are high end like J2 and DB. yes I want to make a bit of money, dont we all? But I also try to make the purchase of such items more of a joy then a hassle IE on most items I do ship them to canada and anywhere in the US for free, I wish I could do the same for my overseas bidders but postage is too expensive for that.
I also include the extra's not as an incentive to get people to bid because they are going to bid on those items regardless of what ever bonus is included, but give them a since of getting a bit more then usual, opeining the package and not just seeing DB or J2, but extra scenarios and what not too.
Is it a copyright violation? Its all in the eyestalks of the beholder, J2 goes for around 150 bucks on the average, where as a tot product sells for much less. I do have ToT MM98 Romainian/ Hungarian Rare vehicle pack in a copied form from the same collection I picked up earleir this year. The Counters are hand mounted and the scenarios are copied. I plan on putting this up on eBay after I'm done playing through the scenarios so as to get some of my money back from the collection of ASL stuff I bought from this guy. Of course I'll sell it with a high end item too.

Anyway, for those that feel I am in the wrong, by all mean complain to eBay.

Scott





AdrianE said:
ASL Grognard

If you review the auctions carefully, none of MMP's work is involved.

In the first one, the bonus is a copy of the hero PAX 1 scenarios that he reworked into a ASL standard format.

In the second case he is giving away a "copy" of TOT1 that someone ELSE duplicated and sold to him. What should he do here?

In the past he has added extras that were his work. He provided ASL standard format counters for some CH work. He posted elsewhere on the process he followed.

Blame Scott for things he actually does (like trolling) not photcopying scenarios. However you also have to give him credit for the things he does do ... like try to get his scenarios available to a wider audience (see posts earlier in this thread).

This particular thread has devolved into the typical ASL IP issues thread. The ill-informed are arguing about the finer points of IP law. It is a situation with no possible value added outcome. No amount of yammering by ASL players on some obscure board is going to change the relevant laws. The other thing to remember is that IP law varies from country to country. What is allowable in one country is not in another. ASL happens to span international boundaries.


To bring this thread back on topic:
I believe that the copyright holders of long out of print ASL material (like OAF, TOT) should be encouraged by the ASL community to donate their works to the public domain. Those that do so should be recognized and thanked. Note that a good number of the ASLUG scenarios have been donated.

Now should the copyright holders decline to do so, we should respect their decision and not copy their work. We can however lobby them repeatedly to change their minds.

Adrian
 

Brian W

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,216
Reaction score
1,196
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
AdrianE said:
If you review the auctions carefully, none of MMP's work is involved.
Well, according to MMP some of it is, the counter art and the layout. However, that wasn't really my point (I did not mention MMP at all). The fact is that the scenario concepts are the intellectual property of CH and ToT. They belong to them and have value.

AdrianE said:
In the first one, the bonus is a copy of the hero PAX 1 scenarios that he reworked into a ASL standard format.
The Hero Pax are still available for sale; Scott is selling copies. That he reworked the copies is besides the point, he is selling them. If I downloaded the latest copy of a book and changed the font that would not give me the right to start selling the book.

AdrianE said:
In the second case he is giving away a "copy" of TOT1 that someone ELSE duplicated and sold to him. What should he do here?
He should go back to whomever stiffed him and get his money back if possible. That is if you believe him. Since he is selling lots of stuff illegally, I think we can say that he is not believeable.

AdrianE said:
In the past he has added extras that were his work. He provided ASL standard format counters for some CH work. He posted elsewhere on the process he followed.
That is actually illagel too (although I have done it as well), but when he starts selling it I think it is wrong. I cannot understand not being able to tell the difference between photo-copying scenarios and selling them on ebay and creating counters to be used in lieu of the provided counters for free.
 

Larry

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
3,642
Reaction score
142
Location
Guada La Habra
Country
llUnited States
I tried to post this yesterday but the site crashed me out and I ran out of time. Anyone else noticing error messages in using the forum?

My observation: copyright is now the most discussed single issue on this forum. At over 100, it beats even the abused VASL dice bot handily. Who knew that intellectual property law was so hot and so popular.
 
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
102
Reaction score
7
Location
Logroño
Country
llSpain
WCW products

Hello Louie

mglouie said:
Send payment with $4 postage for one or two issues, and $6 for all three to:

WCW
c/o Louie Tokarz
5724 W. 106th St.
Chicago Ridge, IL
60415

Make checks payable to WCW.

This is for US orders. Overseas is case by case, the postaget thing is a killer for over seas orders, these things are heavy.

Louie
I´m interested in your three products, but I live over seas.
You can contact me at jdargaiz@yahoo.es

Jesus
 
Top