Road Bonus and Narrow Streets

sfcmikej

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Hey everyone

A unit starts in a building that has a narrow street as one of the hexsides. He is in NN48 (from the Dinant Map) below. If he moves into MM49 does that count as moving across a road hexside for road bonus purposes? B3.4 says you get road bonus if cross only road hexsides it does not state you have to start on the road. What do think?

Mike

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Honosbinda

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Nice try, yes. I don't see why not. MM49 and NN48 have a road hexside.

B31.1 A Narrow Street is represented by a road depiction overprinting ≥ one hexside (EX: hexside 46Z2-AA3). ...Infantry/Cavalry Bypassing along a Narrow Street pay normal Bypass MF costs, but can still (as could a Wagon) qualify for the MF road bonus (3.4). Contrary to the 3.4 example, a unit moving along/across a Narrow Street hexside cannot enter an obstacle at the road MF rate.

The rule states that you can't enter an obstacle at the road rate, but it says nothing about leaving such an obstacle. Nor does any rule discount that a road straddling a hexside does not qualify as a road crossing a hexside.

This is indirectly supported by manhole 'errata' allowing a manhole to exist even if one of the roads only partially exists along one of the hexsides (specifically VotG Y24).
 
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The Purist

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However, infantry cannot begin or remain in bypass. If starting a MPh in NN48 then they must be "IN" the building, unless passengers/riders in/on a vehicle that begins the MPh is bypass.

If they are in the building, they cannot be on the road.
 

Honosbinda

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However, infantry cannot begin or remain in bypass. If starting a MPh in NN48 then they must be "IN" the building, unless passengers/riders in/on a vehicle that begins the MPh is bypass.

If they are in the building, they cannot be on the road.
They don't have to be on the road to get the road bonus. All they have to do is cross a road hexside. Just as the OP indicated.

B3.4 Infantry, Cavalry, and Horse-Drawn units which cross only road hexsides throughout their MPh are entitled to one extra MF provided they do not encounter mines, burning wrecks, Wire, mud, rubble, roadblocks, debris (O1.2), Panji Covered hexsides, SMOKE, or Deep Snow in those road hexes and are not pushing Guns (C10.3).

Note the example in B3.4, where the unit obviously ends 'in' the building, yet still gets the road movement rate because of the hexside [edit -- in this example the road is not a village road, obviously, which would not have the same benefit. Which is why going into the village building requires that the infantry can't use the road bonus, inferable from B31.1].
 
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Honosbinda

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SO, can you ENTER NN48 via the road?
If you mean infantry enter into the obstacle, I don't think so per B31.1 as the rules mention this is an exception to B3.4, where infantry can ENTER the obstacle via the road. To me the rules for this are clear enough in B3.4 and B31.1 how this works -- YMMV
 

Stewart

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If you mean infantry enter into the obstacle, I don't think so per B31.1 as the rules mention this is an exception to B3.4, where infantry can ENTER the obstacle via the road. To me the rules for this are clear enough in B3.4 and B31.1 how this works -- YMMV
the requirement is to cross a roads hexside right? if that is considered a roads hexside, it should suffice, no?
 

Honosbinda

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the requirement is to cross a roads hexside right? if that is considered a roads hexside, it should suffice, no?
My interpretation of B3.43 and B34.1 is that entrance of the obstacle in this case would be 'road-negating terrain' because the unit is deriving TEM protection otherwise not allowed per B3.43, just as using the woods for cover along the road would be.

Do you have any other 'Socratic method' questions designed to elicit further elaboration? lol
 
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MichalS

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Since the unit would be going straight into bypass, it leaves the hex through a vertex. I would think that the hexside condition needs to be fulfilled for both hexsides (also MM48/NN48). Which would indeed be a somewhat rare situation...
 

Honosbinda

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Since the unit would be going straight into bypass, it leaves the hex through a vertex. I would think that the hexside condition needs to be fulfilled for both hexsides (also MM48/NN48). Which would indeed be a somewhat rare situation...
So you're saying that the road movement rate cannot be used by any kind of unit at all unless both hexsides have a road? Surely that is not the intention of these village roads. The unit does not actually go into bypass leaving the hex it is in before it leaves its hex. It goes straight into MM49, into the road during the mechanics of movement, from one location to the next.

There isn't any specific rule for the transition from a village narrow street to a normal road, because it's not necessary. The unit leaves the village onto a normal road as usual.

Although it does make it interesting if a firer wants to use the alternative sighting rules along a road per A4.132:

the firer has the option of tracing LOS to either: a) the hex center dot, or b) the point where the hexside crossed intersects the road used. If the LOS to one target point is blocked, the firer can still fire at the other with no additional penalty.
 
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Robin Reeve

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Since the unit would be going straight into bypass, it leaves the hex through a vertex.
No.
A bypassing unit is always in one of the hexes containing the bypassed obstacle. It never is moving "between" hexes nor "on" a vertex.
So it always exits the bypassed hex through a hexside.
 

Larry

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If a CT AFV sets up in the building, can it go CE on the start MP and exit for 1/2 MP on the road?
 

Stewart

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My interpretation of B3.43 and B34.1 is that entrance of the obstacle in this case would be 'road-negating terrain' because the unit is deriving TEM protection otherwise not allowed per B3.43, just as using the woods for cover along the road would be.

Do you have any other 'Socratic method' questions designed to elicit further elaboration? lol
So, you want your cake and eat it to?
 
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