PTO City Fight Scenarios?

TheSQLGuru

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Hello all. I am a Starter Kit player, and I wish to design a scenario for an upcoming SK scenario pack. The quickest route to this is to take an existing scenario, request permission to use the material, and find SK maps and pieces that fit, play test and submit. In a former life when I was a full ASL player, PTO was tied with Early War for my favorite type of scenario. But I cannot remember any city fights other than Shanghai in Flames, and SSRing in Flame rules would be too cumbersome.

Can anyone recommend any PTO City fights? So far I have Havoc in Shanghai, Mahem in Manilla and Tsunami of Maniacs. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have!
 

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BFP29-Hueishan Docks and BFP35-Mai Phu. The latter uses Boards u and v.
 

Craig Benn

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Are there French in Starter kit?

J76 Ultimate Treachery is a PTO city fight with if I remember correctly no banzai by SSR. Although it does have rowhouses which I don't think are in SK. And VCs based on locations so you'd have to tweak if you lose the upper levels.
 

Carln0130

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Mayhem in Manilla, Shanghai in Flames spring to mind.
 

TheSQLGuru

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1) Both Havoc and Tsunami were published by ESG. They use the same two boards, just opposite sides of them. Sadly I cannot find any way to contact them to ask for permission to use these two. Since they are a defunct organization I don't know that there is IP protection to be concerned with, especially given that my conversions would perforce be VERY different due to different maps, units, RULES, etc. I will certainly give attribution though.

If anyone knows how I can contact any of the former ESG people please PM me!!

2) Mayhem in Manila is a likely candidate since MMP owns the right to that via the 1996 Annual. Thus getting "permission" should be trivial since my SK'ified scenario would be published in an MMP product.

3) I did a variety of searches in the ASL Scenario Archive, and dismissed J12 Jungle Fighters as likely NOT a city fight. :) That one looks quite promising! I can think of only two "chase the other" type scenarios in SK-land, and both are poor IMHO.

4) J76 Ultimate Treachery: I remember this one, and had been wracking my brain for the scenario name! I played it twice, and thoroughly enjoyed it both times. Sadly their are no French in Starter Kit. :(

5) BFP29-Hueishan Docks and BFP35-Mai Phu: I will check out the first, but the second isn't "city" enough with boards u and v.


Thanks for all the inputs!
 

Michael Dorosh

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1) Both Havoc and Tsunami were published by ESG. They use the same two boards, just opposite sides of them. Sadly I cannot find any way to contact them to ask for permission to use these two. Since they are a defunct organization I don't know that there is IP protection to be concerned with, especially given that my conversions would perforce be VERY different due to different maps, units, RULES, etc. I will certainly give attribution though.
Glenn Houseman is very active on Facebook, and has an account here in the name of Glennbo.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Thanks Michael. I searched for his name, and found ...
I'm pretty sure the mods would be more comfortable if you kept the conversation on an ASL level rather than passing judgement on his politics. FWIW I made him aware of this thread thinking I was doing you a favor, your description of him comes off a bit unfortunate in that regard.
 

TheSQLGuru

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When I made my statement about FB, I had already searched that site for him before you mentioned his name (the creators are all named in the packs). I had no idea if the GH I was searching for was him or not. There were other Glenn Housemans - his was just the one FB put forth as the "top" one (i.e. most active presumably). I had VERY much hoped it wasn't him, but sadly you have clarified otherwise - so in a way you did do me a favor. So I will thus not be converting any ESG scenarios to SK.
 

Danno

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Just played Tiger of Toungoo from Deluxe Redux (D23). It is a great PTO city fight. Infantry only, Japanese vs Chinese. Smash mouth ASL with lots of H-t-H CC, plus FT, WP, Pillboxes and Fortified buildings. Old annual scenario, Deluxe is often overlooked as good transition from ASLSK to ASL.
 

TheSQLGuru

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Thanks to those that provided inputs! I will be converting Mayhem in Manila to Starter Kit for the upcoming SK scenario pack. The DASL board arrangement in there matches rather well with the new city board Ken Dunn has put together as one of the two new boards being released with the group of scenarios. There were actually just 2 adjustments to forces needed too, which is great. SK now has an IJA 12.7 AA gun (released with SK EP 2), but not the 25mm AA gun. I will replace that with an 8-0/228/.50cal combo. On the US side, the SK components provide a US 105 Sherman, but it is a "normal" one - i.e. big armor factors, whereas the PTO variant in play in Mayhem has a circle 3 over 1 armor and a -/-/4 complement. Those are a very important distinctions, especially the armor, since the tank can no longer maneuver around the map with the relative impunity that the MUCH higher armor factors would allow. A simple SSR to change the armor and MGs will suffice for that.
 

Martin Mayers

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When I made my statement about FB, I had already searched that site for him before you mentioned his name (the creators are all named in the packs). I had no idea if the GH I was searching for was him or not. There were other Glenn Housemans - his was just the one FB put forth as the "top" one (i.e. most active presumably). I had VERY much hoped it wasn't him, but sadly you have clarified otherwise - so in a way you did do me a favor. So I will thus not be converting any ESG scenarios to SK.
Glenn's probably not 'Right Wing'. He has very strong political views but, without wanting to speak for him, is probably 'Libertarian' in beliefs. He would certainly be quite capable of defending himself on here. But I believe doesn't visit anymore so likely won't.

I've had spats on P&R with him here in the past but we're now pretty good friends on Facebook with quite a lot in common (something you can often find when you crawl away from the cesspit of politics). For the record a LOT of ASL players and designers seem to be on the Right Wing of politics, and a lot of them quite staunchly so. It's not a crime.

Most crucially to the case in point though, he and the ESG guys designed great scenarios. Whether he is (self-proclaimed) "greatest scenario designer of all time" is probably disputed but I've had great fun over the years with ESG stuff and hugely recommend it.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Well said, Martin. I think Glenn may be wrong in his opinions regarding COVID-19, but I enjoy reading his posts on FB. He lives a healthy, even spartan lifestyle - as he tells it - and is a talented artist who also posts photos of nature frequently. He also (along with Fred Schwarz) got me into improving my lifestyle by posting about their use of a couple of fitness apps which I had no idea about. Literally changed my life for the better. He's entitled to his opinions on politics, many of which I don't share but which does not prevent me from appreciating his skill at scenario design, or from enjoying reading about his healthy lifestyle, love of nature, and artistic endeavours.

I've played at least two of the ESG scenarios in my collection against different opponents and enjoyed them both.

I'm sure Glenn will survive without having a third party remake one of his scenarios, just as he'll live without even knowing about the disdain expressed here for his personal opinions. The only real objectionable thing about this conversation is the OP's perceived need to make a hobby-related discussion political, and attempt to signal his own virtues in the process.
 

pixelgeek

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The only real objectionable thing about this conversation is the OP's perceived need to make a hobby-related discussion political, and attempt to signal his own virtues in the process.
It is rather funny that the phrase 'virtue signalling' is most often used in a manner which implies that the writer doesn't do that sort of thing which means that it is just signalling a different type of virtues.
 

Michael Dorosh

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It is rather funny that the phrase 'virtue signalling' is most often used in a manner which implies that the writer doesn't do that sort of thing which means that it is just signalling a different type of virtues.
Combing one's hair in the morning may or may not be vanity but if one were to stop the administration of CPR to a dying man in order to straighten their hair, you would tend to view the two acts differently by placing them in context.
 

pixelgeek

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Combing one's hair in the morning may or may not be vanity but if one were to stop the administration of CPR to a dying man in order to straighten their hair, you would tend to view the two acts differently by placing them in context.
Which is a nice piece of writing (aside from the misplaced object in your second clause) but I think that the context is entirely legitimate here. You talk about expressing disdain and being critical of it and then use a term that is only ever used pejoratively to describe the original commenter.

'Virtue signalling' is this generation's version of 'politically correct' and it serves the same purpose. To put the author apart from the people they are commenting on. If you think that theSQLGuru is out of line for their comments you can't really expect not to be called on it when you do the same thing. In a more urbane fashion but its still the same thing.
 
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