mortars against AFV

Pedro Santos

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I am extremely rusty. Could anyone briefly explain what happens when a mortar scores a hit on an AFV (an OT CE one in this case)? The crew take a +2 at half FP on the IFT (I think), but how can the vehicle be affected?
 

Blaze

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The little Mortars are wonder weapons against OT or CE AFV's. Nothing like hammering away with rate and landing a crit! But, yeah most often you'll stun them which is great also. But yeah, the bigger mortars can even take kill an AFV outright though not too often.
 

ibncalb

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I'm going to check that - but I suspect you're correct...
Excepting a crit the 75mm cannot hurt a Panther even on a turret hit.

A 60mm on a normal hit will have an effect on a 4 or less.

Throw in a ROF of three and a 45 hex range, they are beasts.

A similar situation in late war PTO the 47L is nearly useless against the front of a Sherman, the knee mortar on the other hand is another AT beast.
 

Sparafucil3

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Excepting a crit the 75mm cannot hurt a Panther even on a turret hit.

A 60mm on a normal hit will have an effect on a 4 or less.

Throw in a ROF of three and a 45 hex range, they are beasts.

A similar situation in late war PTO the 47L is nearly useless against the front of a Sherman, the knee mortar on the other hand is another AT beast.
Why would a 75 Sherman shoot AP at a Panther? It would shoot HE ATT as well. It doesn't have the ROF so the mortar would probably still be the better choice mathematically. It would have the same chance to harm with HE but without the ROF. -- jim
 

JimWhite

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I love shooting at German StuGs in Stalingrad with my Russian 50s.

Damn the German SAN...full ROF ahead! 🤪
 

FourDeuceMF

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'The right ammo for the right target', a good mantra: Troops - MGs or (if there are no enemy AFV threats) HE ITT; * vehicles - MGs or HE VTT (overkill, save for those AT vehicles); BU AFVs that are 'killable' - VTT with AP (special ammo only if you want the extra shot chance, and there's nothing 'bigger' you want to save that ammo for); CE AFVs that are unlikely kill, but still killable - HE VTT (with fun collateral attacks v crew) & MGs (for pesky crews); BU AFVs with ridiculously-solid armor, OR OT AFVs with strong armor (not too many of these, but some of the later German TDs are, as well as most US TDs), HE w/ATT!

Nothing is 'written in stone'...there are, and always will be, exceptions and conditional deviation from the above...that's the 'art' of the game, but it's useful to run the numbers from time to time.

Note, ATT is a good option in the Advancing Fire Phase, as it's unlikely (unless a stabilized gun) that you'll be getting a hit, you have zero ROF anyways, and you'll still get acquisition you can 'bracket down' in the DFF (or in his movement phase when he expends a start MP). If he's in Motion, however, and you want to track, you'll just have to roll the bones with a VTT attack, and hope for the best. ;-)
 

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Why would a 75 Sherman shoot AP at a Panther? It would shoot HE ATT as well. It doesn't have the ROF so the mortar would probably still be the better choice mathematically. It would have the same chance to harm with HE but without the ROF. -- jim
Indeed, using ATT would be better and I'd do it as a last resort. HOWEVER, if my Sherman has a shot at a Panther, I'm likely going to be moving the Sherman. Because the Panther sees it too, and you know how that'll end when the killer kitty shoots.
 

Sparafucil3

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Indeed, using ATT would be better and I'd do it as a last resort. HOWEVER, if my Sherman has a shot at a Panther, I'm likely going to be moving the Sherman. Because the Panther sees it too, and you know how that'll end when the killer kitty shoots.
Sometimes you fail your motion roll. Sometimes things just don't go your way. Sometimes, the only thing you can do is look death square in the eye and flip him the bird.

But I won't do that without first trying to see if I can get Infantry Smoke between me and the Panther. Put two of those down and get the sD, sM, sP and you can scoot away freely.

It's all about knowing what your options are. --- jim
 
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Robin Reeve

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Air bursts TEM do not appear to apply to a vehicle. Just to its crews if exposed by CE or OT.
Did I speak of Air Bursts?
C3.332 (ATT vs vehicles) refers to C1.55, which belongs to the OBA chapter.
 

FrankH.

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Did I speak of Air Bursts?
C3.332 (ATT vs vehicles) refers to C1.55, which belongs to the OBA chapter.
No you did not mention Air Bursts but they are referenced in C1.55 and C3.332.

Reading a bit more, yes, Air Bursts do apply to OT and CE vehicles, even so much as to reduce an OT vehicle to unarmored status in most cases. That is in (towards the end of) D5.311, of all places. Even if while in bypass of a woods apparently.
 
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ScottRomanowski

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Not just OBA and mortars but also ATT versus a vehicle that is otherwise impenetrable. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
I once played the American in TOT11 Bitter Reply. By SSR all American tanks begin play mired. My opponent moved a JgPz V against one Sherman. I used ATT and immobilized the JgPz. Of course, I lost the Sherman to the JgPz, but the JgPz was out of the game, a NT vehicle pointing at no other targets.
 

Paul John

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but how can the vehicle be affected
Not really a reply, but I lined up a german 50* at some plinky tank and got 3x critical hits that did nothing, then after a ton of useless regular hits finally rolled a 1,1 on the effects to take it out. High ROF and enough chances will get you there! Good dice too obviously.
 
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