Main Armament and C10.5 En Portee

BattleSchool

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Are Guns carried as Passenger PP and capable of firing while loaded considered to be MA by default, or must a Gun be designated as the MA on a vehicle listing?

For example, the OQF 2-pounder (40L) on the 2pdr Portee TDtr (British Vehicle Note 77) is listed as the vehicle's MA.

Is a OQF 6-pounder (57L) carried as Passenger PP on a 3-ton lorry, for instance, considered a MA? If not, does the vehicle suffer Recall if the 57L is Disabled?

Index
MA (Main Armament: the main weapon on a vehicle and usually the only vehicular weapon which can have a Multiple ROF. The Vehicle Listings cite each vehicle's specific MA as does the counter display.
Index
En Portee: (a gun carried as Passenger PP) C10.5.
British Ordnance Note 6.
OQF 6-Pounder: ...Prior to the invasion of Italy in 1943, 6pdrs were carried en portee;
British Multi-Applicable Ordnance Note B
In a scenario set between 1941 and 8/43 inclusive, this Gun may be carried en portee, which means it may be loaded onto a vehicle (during setup/play) and carried as Passenger PP. As a Passenger, the Gun and its ammo together use all but 5PP of the vehicle's Passenger capacity. The 25LL AT may be porteed only by a 15-cwt truck, the 40L AT only by a 30-cwt lorry, and the 57L AT or 75 ART only by a 3-ton lorry. And the vehicle must be one that, prior to setup, was noted on a side record as being able to portee a Gun of that particular Caliber Size (C2.21) and Barrel Length (C4.1).

The principles of (un)loading a Gun to/from portee status are the same as for the 2pdr Portee in British Vehicle Note 77, except that here the Gun crew (un)loads as a Passenger rather than as an Inherent Crew, and a QSU Gun is not (unloaded limbered. When a Gun has been thusly loaded, it is marked with an En Portee counter. A vehicle porteeing a Gun is not flipped over to its Wreck side if it becomes Immobilized, and the Gun may be unloaded (at which time the vehicle counter is then flipped over). If a vehicle porteeing a Gun is eliminated, the Gun is eliminated too. A vehicle may not simultaneously have one Gun en portee and another hooked up for towing. An AT (with a gunshield) being porteed can provide gunshield benefits to its Passenger crew in the same way the 2pdr Portee MA does to its Inherent crew.

...The 57L AT (only) may be fired by its Passenger crew while being porteed [EXC: it may not use Bounding (First) Fire]. When loaded on the vehicle, its CA must coincide with either the VCA or "rear" VCA, and may not change relative to that VCA while being porteed.
 

BattleSchool

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Pretty sure it is the latter.
Okay, thanks.

So would a 3-ton lorry with a 57L en portee be Recalled if its MA becomes Disabled? Or could the truck (and crew) play silly bugger for the rest of the scenario?

I'm thinking that an SSR would have to state that the vehicle (and crew) are Recalled, but want to be certain.
 

jrv

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D1.3 "Each armed vehicle has one MA Inherent weapon. The MA is shown as a large number representing its MA Gun Caliber Size (C2.21), or by the appropriate acronym for its MA MG, FT or ATR, in the bottom left-hand corner of the counter."

If it's not on the counter, it's not a MA.

JR
 

BattleSchool

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If it's not on the counter, it's not a MA.

JR
I came to the same conclusion, but didn't want to overlook some obscure rule or Q&A.

Have amended the VC/SSR accordingly.

Does the phrase "vehicles with a functioning Gun/MA" work?

How about "A truck is Recalled (D5.341) if not in/adjacent to a hex with a Gun/its Gun is Disabled (C3.7)"?
 

jrv

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I came to the same conclusion, but didn't want to overlook some obscure rule or Q&A.

Have amended the VC/SSR accordingly.

Does the phrase "vehicles with a functioning Gun/MA" work?

How about "A truck is Recalled (D5.341) if not in/adjacent to a hex with a Gun/its Gun is Disabled (C3.7)"?
"In/adjacent to a hex with a Gun": any old gun, or the gun it brought to the party? If the latter, you could use "in/adjacent to the hex with the gun it carried en Portée. If the gun is disabled, it is removed from the board, and the truck would no longer be in/adjacent. I am wondering whether in the action you are depicting it's worth keeping the trucks around once they drop a gun off.

JR
 

Eagle4ty

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I came to the same conclusion, but didn't want to overlook some obscure rule or Q&A.

Have amended the VC/SSR accordingly.

Does the phrase "vehicles with a functioning Gun/MA" work?

How about "A truck is Recalled (D5.341) if not in/adjacent to a hex with a Gun/its Gun is Disabled (C3.7)"?
Rather than forcing the Truck/Gun to be Recalled in such a situation (thus playing the game for the person), allow the truck and its Passengers to be exited (Recalled) off any FBE at the players discretion without any CVP penalty and increase the CVP value of the Truck/Gun should they remain on-board. This increases the options of the player and adds another level to decision making process. Of course if there is no CVP count in the game, another option may have to be envisioned.
 

BattleSchool

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"In/adjacent to a hex with a Gun": any old gun, or the gun it brought to the party? If the latter, you could use "in/adjacent to the hex with the gun it carried en Portée. If the gun is disabled, it is removed from the board, and the truck would no longer be in/adjacent. I am wondering whether in the action you are depicting it's worth keeping the trucks around once they drop a gun off.

JR
I'm not too fussed about the in/adjacent thing. In a six-turn scenario, the window in which these vehicles can unload and reload is quite small. However, I wanted to keep the option open for players to reload and exit the vehicle on the last turn.

I was more concerned with ensuring that there was no ambiguity with regard to the game status of these portees for VC and Recall purposes.

In the first case, I wanted to ensure that the VC verbiage for exiting the portees was effectively equivalent to the standard "with functioning MA" phrasing.

Second, when the MA of a 2pdr Portee TDtr is Disabled, the truck is Recalled. However, when a 6pdr on a 3-ton lorry is Disabled, the Gun is removed from play. With no Gun on board, and copious portage capacity, the truck is under no obligation to leave the playing area. In order to avoid gamey play, an SSR statement is needed to compel Recall (unless the truck is in/adjacent to a hex containing another Gun--there are four portees. Had the 57L been considered to be the vehicle's MA (given that unlike some Guns, it can be fired from the vehicle), no SSR would be necessary.
 

BattleSchool

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Rather than forcing the Truck/Gun to be Recalled in such a situation (thus playing the game for the person), allow the truck and its Passengers to be exited (Recalled) off any FBE at the players discretion without any CVP penalty and increase the CVP value of the Truck/Gun should they remain on-board. This increases the options of the player and adds another level to decision making process. Of course if there is no CVP count in the game, another option may have to be envisioned.
Thanks for the suggestion. CVP currently plays no role in what is otherwise a fluid scenario with an exit component. The Brits either take the VC building, or exit three (of eight) vehicles to win. (The Jerries likewise have two means of winning the scenario.)
 
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