Lmg mg42

Geordie

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If there's one thing that I have mixed thoughts about it's this thing.

The LMG MG42 just doesn't seem to give the same kind of results that I've been expecting. To be honest I was expecting it to be a bastard to play against and a force multiplier to play with.

So far it seems like it's just a BAR with a bigger magazine. These things are supposed to pump out over 2000 rds a minute. The in game ones are firing no faster than a BAR.
They also come with Drum Mags when in reality the majority were belt fed. Yes I know some were drum fed but not the majority of them.

I've done a lot of real life running around with a GPMG which isn't much different from an MG42 and I can testify that it's a heavy bugger and slows you down lugging it and it's ammo around but when you bang down in the dirt and start to play it there's no stoping you. Firing 4-8 round bursts you can put down a serious amount of fire for a considerable amount of time.

You just cannot do this in the game.

However, because you can't it does seem to bias the game towards the bigger US squads.

What I'd like to see is belt fed MG42 with plenty of ammo and the ability to split them off in teams. On defence they should be almost impregnable to anything but mortars or artillery.

Right now it feels like the Germans are lugging around M247s from CMSF.

I'm hoping this may be addressed in a future patch.
 

Michael Dorosh

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MG34 and 42 used the same ammunition and fired from non-disintegrating 50-round belts (I actually have a couple of these in my own ammunition locker, which I picked up when I was in re-enactment many years ago). The ammunition was carried in large metal ammunition cans with offset handles (a nifty feature allowing you to carry two comfortably in one hand - I also have one of these somewhere in my collection), or else just draped around the neck or over the shoulders "bandito" style. The trouble is, at 1,200-1,500 rpm (max cyclic rate of the MG42), you are still going through a lot of belts. Most wargames keep ammunition resupply somewhat abstract for this reason. Heavy weapons positions would stockpile ammunition, and in a running fight, the company quartermaster would be tasked with keeping the ammunition flowing forward to the rifle sections.
 

Redwolf

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CMBN doesn't model letting loose with a MG.

In CMBN's model the only thing that make a MG42 more powerful than a BAR is the bigger "magazine" and the changeable barrel for long-term sustained average ROF, but not the actual burst rate of fire. Actually I don't think that changing barrels is taken into account for the LMG and I just hope for the HMG.
 

dalem

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CMBN doesn't model letting loose with a MG.

In CMBN's model the only thing that make a MG42 more powerful than a BAR is the bigger "magazine" and the changeable barrel for long-term sustained average ROF, but not the actual burst rate of fire. Actually I don't think that changing barrels is taken into account for the LMG and I just hope for the HMG.
If true

(note, Elvis and Jephy, that I typed "If true" before you open your face-holes)

I find it very odd, given that Steve has all the reference materials we do and more, and has the experience of MGs in CMBO being criticized and rectified in later versions. What would make/allow him to have the same argument again 10 years later?

-dale
 

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If I had to guess, the CMx2 engine requires all shooters to spend some time "aiming" between each burst of fire -- maybe in part (conjecture) to give the engine time to calculate the "CEP" (dither/error) around where each burst actually lands relative to the target point. If so, the "easy" fix would be to eliminate or minimize the "aiming time" for LMGs, but I'd also guess this fix is not straightforward for other design reasons I can't fathom.
 

Redwolf

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If true

(note, Elvis and Jephy, that I typed "If true" before you open your face-holes)

I find it very odd, given that Steve has all the reference materials we do and more, and has the experience of MGs in CMBO being criticized and rectified in later versions. What would make/allow him to have the same argument again 10 years later?

-dale
It's mostly an AI problem. You don't want to create a situation where the ammo is unrealistically wasted on a regular basis. It is quite obvious to us here that a HMG or LMG will fire a lot disregarding ammo conversation before it is being overrun (remember the saying, there's nothing more stupid than to die on top of your saved ammo). But putting than into a usable TacAI policy isn't trivial.

In any case, what I posted is correct according to observing any MG in CMBN for any amount of time. Sure, the short individual LMG42 burst might be modeled to be more powerful than the short individual BAR burst.

But the MG42 (either variant) will never go into emergency mode. And the way that I understand the development of the MG42 and why they decided to give it such a rate of fire that is impractical for regular use is specifically to do something about being overrun. Remember this thing has been put out in the field after the Germans had figured out that WW2 for them will be a game of dealing with their manpower shortage.
 

Elvis

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If there's one thing that I have mixed thoughts about it's this thing.

The LMG MG42 just doesn't seem to give the same kind of results that I've been expecting. To be honest I was expecting it to be a bastard to play against and a force multiplier to play with.
.
I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are referring to... The LMG MG42 is the MG42 carried as part of a squad as opposed to the MG42 team, correct?
 

Elvis

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That's the puzzler - the whole discussion was already had a decade ago: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=14260&highlight=sick+with+mgs

Testing regimen? What testing regimen? :)

-dale
Any shot of pulling out what you feel are the important bits? I got through 5 pages and it was almost all about MG firing ranges for fun, paintball and someones spring break trip.

What you posted on page 2 is the behavior I see in CMBN. The squad with the MG42 and MG34 will pin an advaning unit (want me to make a movie?). Breaking off a team from a squad that includes the MG42 and trying that will usually result in the team getting overrun.
 

dalem

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Any shot of pulling out what you feel are the important bits? I got through 5 pages and it was almost all about MG firing ranges for fun, paintball and someones spring break trip.

What you posted on page 2 is the behavior I see in CMBN. The squad with the MG42 and MG34 will pin an advaning unit (want me to make a movie?). Breaking off a team from a squad that includes the MG42 and trying that will usually result in the team getting overrun.
I'm merely illustrating the point that it is interesting that the same issue would/could crop up again, if indeed it has.

-dale
 

Elvis

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I'm merely illustrating the point that it is interesting that the same issue would/could crop up again, if indeed it has.

-dale
I guess. It looks like a lot of old conversations are popping back up. Probably the nature of the subject matter. It was cool to see Fionn posts again. I miss him. And Steve was posting as Big Time Software.
 

dalem

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I guess. It looks like a lot of old conversations are popping back up. Probably the nature of the subject matter. It was cool to see Fionn posts again. I miss him. And Steve was posting as Big Time Software.
Are you kidding? Fionn is a dickweed. Always was, and caused a bunch of problems before Steve finally gave him the heave-ho.

-dale
 

Elvis

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Are you kidding? Fionn is a dickweed. Always was, and caused a bunch of problems before Steve finally gave him the heave-ho.

-dale
I got along fine with him and he was a very well read guy. As knowledgeable as anyone else I have seen in the community. The best CMx1 player I ever encountered. I never played anyone close to as good. What Fionns problem was and what led to his bannings (I think he was banned 3 times) was that he was very hotheaded. When challenged he sometimes took the challenge as a personal insult and reacted with a great deal of anger.
 

dalem

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I got along fine with him and he was a very well read guy. As knowledgeable as anyone else I have seen in the community. The best CMx1 player I ever encountered. I never played anyone close to as good. What Fionns problem was and what led to his bannings (I think he was banned 3 times) was that he was very hotheaded. When challenged he sometimes took the challenge as a personal insult and reacted with a great deal of anger.
Right. Like I said, he was a dickweed. I'm sure you got along with him just fine.

-dale
 

[hirr]Leto

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Right. Like I said, he was a dickweed. I'm sure you got along with him just fine.

-dale
I wouldn't go so far as calling Fionn names, but he indeed was very peculiar, potentially prickly and highly animated as to what he considered fair game play and historical use of tactics. The game that we played did not have any flags (somethiing he insisted on) and I believe I drew some ire from him based on his response to some of my tactics (we never finished the game).

One can produce an extremely incredible win loss percentage if one only sticks to playing specific types of games that one is well experienced with I have found. I have also observed that the top shelf players are difficult to beat in any conditions: scenario, QB, or otherwise.

Cheers!

Leto
 

Elvis

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Fionn spent a little time here last summer. I got the feeling folks were pleased to hear from him. I guess I was wrong.
 

Redwolf

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Fionn definitely was and is welcome here.

Sure he's fuzzy about play conditions. But by the standards of this forum that's about the mildest kind of fuzzy we have to offer :D
 

Geordie

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I got along fine with him and he was a very well read guy. As knowledgeable as anyone else I have seen in the community. The best CMx1 player I ever encountered. I never played anyone close to as good. What Fionns problem was and what led to his bannings (I think he was banned 3 times) was that he was very hotheaded. When challenged he sometimes took the challenge as a personal insult and reacted with a great deal of anger.
Ive nothing against Fionn, seemed a nice guy when I played him. Did suffer from that 'Im too good to lose' thing a lot of good players seem to have. I beat him soundly in one game and all he did was moan about how my Grants seemed to be everpowered!

Oh and Yes, I mean the Squad MG42.
 
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