Legal routing destination

[tassonik]

Hi all,

I've a broken unit in OG and LOS and normal range of a GO enemy unit, i.e. I've to rout away.
There is only one woods/building hex within 6MF (it's a woods hex, actually).
To reach that woods I will, sooner or later, move closer to a KEU.

Can I ignore that destination? If so, what can I do? Can I rout/low crawl wherever I want, provided I don't get closer to KEUs?

If I can't ignore it, am I eliminated for FTR?

TIA

Andrea

 

[Ole Boe]

I've a broken unit in OG and LOS and normal range of a GO enemy unit, i.e. I've to rout away.
There is only one woods/building hex within 6MF (it's a woods hex, actually).
To reach that woods I will, sooner or later, move closer to a KEU.

Is the enemy unit Known before the rout starts, or will it become known during the rout?

If it is known before the rout starts, the last paragraph of A10.51 applies: "If no non-ignorable building/woods Location can be reached during that RtPh, a broken unit may rout to any terrain hex consistent with the above restrictions and need not rout toward the nearest woods/building Location."

In other words, you can point out any legal rout hex as your target hex, and stop there. That may be an Open Ground hex two hexes away or whatever.

Can I ignore that destination? If so, what can I do? Can I rout/low crawl wherever I want, provided I don't get closer to KEUs?

Yep.


However, if the enemy was not Known at the start of the rout, your brokie cannot ignore the woods hex. But as soon as it sees the enemy unit, and has to rout towards it to reach the woods hex, that hex is no longer a legal rout target, and a new target must be chosen. This new rout target is then chosen normally, with the exception that only targets you may reach with the remaining MF are considered.

 

[tassonik]

The enemy unit is known before the rout starts.
In the game, I've low crawled to a wheatfield hex not closer to any KEUs, so it should be a legal move.

Thanks for the answer.

I think that in next rout phases I'll continue to have this partial freedom in routing, but if a path to a woods/building becomes legal (maybe because the KEUs move away, or out of LOS, or are eliminated) then I *must* rout to that hex.

Andrea

 

[alanp]

Ole, do you recall a thread a couple of years ago about routing and the KEU not being known before the rout starts? IIRC, the consensus was that the brokie couldn't even start towards that Rout Target--it 'knows' in some quantum sort of way what will happen in the future.

I'm posting this in case you recall this thread or if someone else reading remembers. Ole's explanation is how I've always played but something about that previous thread made me think I'd done it incorrectly.

No worries if no one recalls this. . . .

[Edit: nevermind! I think it had to do with Surrendering. If you're ADJACENT to KEU and the only rout would sooner or later make you face Interdiction--even if your brokie doesn't know it yet--they'll surrender instead of routing part way.]

 

[JayH]

Alan,

I think you are remembering it not quite right. You have to see the enemy from start of your rout to prevent routing in their direction. This is why attacker VBs and routs all units to completion before defender begins VBs and routs.

JayH

 

[MLaPanzer]

I think that in next rout phases I'll continue to have this partial freedom in routing, but if a path to a woods/building becomes legal (maybe because the KEUs move away, or out of LOS, or are eliminated) then I *must* rout to that hex.

Andrea

Nope he will lose his DM marker because he is not in the open. Since he is broken he cannot VB and route away. He is stuck there unless he is DMed again.

 

[Norlin]

To build on what MLAPanzer says, it's not just when you're in the open that you retain DM. You can opt to retain DM if you're not in a building/woods/pillbox/trench. You can lose DM in the open as long as you're not in normal range and LOS of a KEU or ADJACENT to a KEU.

 

[Jazz]

To build on what MLAPanzer says, it's not just when you're in the open that you retain DM. You can opt to retain DM if you're not in a building/woods/pillbox/trench. You can lose DM in the open as long as you're not in normal range and LOS of a KEU or ADJACENT to a KEU.

Very good points that many overlook.

You automatically lose DM is you are in rally terrain (Bldg/woods/pillbox/trench) (EXC: ADJACENT to KEU as mentioned below).

You automatically keep DM if in OG in LOS and normal range of or ADJACENT to enemy units.

All other situations you can decide to keep or lose DM in the rally phase and you should make the decision based on if you want to be able to rout again next rout phase as only DM units can rout.

 

[MLaPanzer]

To build on what MLAPanzer says, it's not just when you're in the open that you retain DM. You can opt to retain DM if you're not in a building/woods/pillbox/trench. You can lose DM in the open as long as you're not in normal range and LOS of a KEU or ADJACENT to a KEU.

My Bad i wrote that a bit fast. Your right you have the option to retain DM status or not.

 

[Jon]

Hi

Clarifing something that Norlin and Jazz said. I will use Jazz's comments

You automatically lose DM is you are in rally terrain (Bldg/woods/pillbox/trench) (EXC: ADJACENT to KEU as mentioned below).

Correct

You automatically keep DM if in OG in LOS and normal range of or ADJACENT to enemy units.

This is not correct. DM is always removed at the end of a Rally Phase unless a) it is ADJACENT to a Known armed Enemy unit (technically the DM is removed at the end of the Rally Phase but then immediately placed back on the brokie for being ADJACENT to the armed KEU) or
b) the player opts to retain DM provided it is not in a woods, building, pillbox or trench.

So even if the broken unit is in OG and in LOS of a armed KEU, its DM is removed at the end of the Rally Phase unles the owner of the broken unit decides to keep it under DM

DM is placed on a broken unit if it starts the Rout Phase in Open Ground in the LOS of a armed KEU.

See A10.62. It first tells when DM is placed, then it tells you when to remove it

Cheers
Jon

 

[Jazz]

Hi

Clarifing something that Norlin and Jazz said. I will use Jazz's comments



Correct



This is not correct. DM is always removed at the end of a Rally Phase unless a) it is ADJACENT to a Known armed Enemy unit (technically the DM is removed at the end of the Rally Phase but then immediately placed back on the brokie for being ADJACENT to the armed KEU) or
b) the player opts to retain DM provided it is not in a woods, building, pillbox or trench.

So even if the broken unit is in OG and in LOS of a armed KEU, its DM is removed at the end of the Rally Phase unles the owner of the broken unit decides to keep it under DM

DM is placed on a broken unit if it starts the Rout Phase in Open Ground in the LOS of a armed KEU.

See A10.62. It first tells when DM is placed, then it tells you when to remove it

Cheers
Jon

All correct. What I described is what *usually* effectively happens, but the rigorous sequence that you describe is the strictly correct answer.

 

[hershmeister]

all the more reason I need to finish my rout flowchart

 

[TSUN]

Alan,

I think you are remembering it not quite right. You have to see the enemy from start of your rout to prevent routing in their direction. This is why attacker VBs and routs all units to completion before defender begins VBs and routs.

JayH

Sorry, I came in late here and got stuck on this.
According to ASOP, both players must declare VB at the beginning of RtPh before any routing starts. I.e. if the attacker has broken units but the defender chooses to VB an ADJACENT unit, the attacker may not have to rout at all. Right?
/Thomas

 

[Ole Boe]

Sorry, I came in late here and got stuck on this.
According to ASOP, both players must declare VB at the beginning of RtPh before any routing starts. I.e. if the attacker has broken units but the defender chooses to VB an ADJACENT unit, the attacker may not have to rout at all. Right?

No.

The ASOP is ambigious here, as it doesn't say whether each single step is done for both (ATTACKER then DEFENDER) before entering the next step, or if ATTACKER does the entire RtPh, followed by DEFENDER doing its entire RtPh.

However, Perry has ruled that the latter is correct:
http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?t=9121

This means that in your situation above, the ATTACKER must rout before the DEFENDER even decides whether to use VB or not.

If you had switched ATTACKER/DEFENDER, then you would be correct: If the ATTACKER chose to VB, the DEFENDER would not have to rout.


P.S. I have it on my list of suggested J8 errata, to make it clear that the ATTACKER makes his entire RtPh before the DEFENDER starts his.

 

[TSUN]

Thanks for clearing that up.
(If you cut Ole's head off, he would still play better than I do. )

 

[JayH]

And he would be more attractive...

JayH