Is slow play at events a common occurrence?

[Martin Mayers]

OK I'll give it to you from a Tournament Director's perspective. In fact, an ex-Tournament Director. The reason I'm an ex-TD being...you guessed it...slow play.

Play at whatever speed you wish to in none competitive gaming, or on VASL, or between friends. But tournaments need organisation and slow players bring a huge headache into play for TDs who put a lot of effort into organising these things during, throughout and for a long period of time running up to the event.

If you risk causing said TD such headaches. Just don't be a dick about it. Don't puff your chest out and say "I'm not happy with that" when, having ran an hour over the TD politely asks you to end. And certainly don't say "well I resign from the tournament then". It may be the easy option for you to sling your sodding toys out of your pram and across the room because of the affront that's clearly been caused...but pause to think about how that tournament is organised and about the potential impact your hissy fit has on things...not least screwing things up for your next opponent who, having waited over an hour for you to finish, now likely has no game as his next opponent just withdrew from the competition.

Slow tournament play is a chronic problem for TDs. Bear that in mind. If you can't get up to speed, don't enter the competition section of the 'tournament'. Or, if you do, then when asked to finish "in the next 10 minutes" make sure you finish in the next 10 minutes. It's all about respect, and in my experience (which I can only give from a UK tournament perspective) there's scant little of it around.

 

[Neal]

I'm a pretty slow and methodical player. But I couldn't imagine holding up an entire tournament because of it. I'd try to play at a fast clip...results be damned.

I've yet to play in a tournament, but I've seen the list of some scenarios used in tournaments. Many of them aren't what I would consider "tournament scenarios". /shrug

 

[Faded 8-1]

Perhaps the problem is not the players, but the format.

Use a free-form format like ASLOK, and one slow match can't hold up an entire round. Maybe it's folly to keep setting up tourneys with strict round schedules.

 

[Actionjick]

Perhaps the problem is not the players, but the format.

Use a free-form format like ASLOK, and one slow match can't hold up an entire round. Maybe it's folly to keep setting up tourneys with strict round schedules.

Nice.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Use a free-form format like ASLOK, and one slow match can't hold up an entire round. Maybe it's folly to keep setting up tourneys with strict round schedules.

Don't the different ASLOK tourneys (main one and mini-tourneys) still have a progress required at some stage, where the winners of one stage will be opposed to the other winners – which means that there is some time constraint?

 

[King Scott II]

I can think of one experienced player who intentionally employs delaying tactics such as disappearing when he is needed to determine sides for a scenario (thus pushing back the start time of the next game/round), questioning every rule (even when shown the rule in the RB), and other such tactics designed to run out the clock. I once waited over two hours for him to show up for our game to determine placement in the top 4. His time delay tactics have been well known for a long time, tournament rules have been written to attempt to minimize the effects of his time delays, and for my own peace of mind I refuse to play him anymore.

Slow play because of not knowing a rule, taking time to plot a final moving turn, or assess an unexpected event are all to be accepted and expected...intentional actions to delay and eat up time is poor sportsmanship in my mind. I know that many will say that my refusal to play him is also an example of poor sportsmanship, which it likely is...but I attend tournaments to see old friends, make new friends, and most importantly, to have fun...getting frustrated at the repeated and obvious delay tactics of this fool is not my definition of fun.

Let him have the plaque or trophy, since it obviously means so much to him...I'll go have some laughs and fun with another opponent.

Semper Fi!
Scott

 

[Robin Reeve]

Scott,
I agree with you.
Life is full of enough frustration to add having to bear with bad mannered people during a leisure time.
It is not a lack of sportmanship not to adapt.

 

[Tater]

On the contrary, I have witnessed players using "speedy" play as a weapon/tool. By hardly pausing even a fraction of a second while moving...forcing opponents to basically call a stop to be able to "play" ASL...trying to throw opponents off their game by playing as fast as possible and continuously complaining and insulting their opponent for not allowing them to go at lightning speed.

I don't consider myself to be a slow player...but ASL is not a sprint!

A8.11: (Examples)
"However, the ATTACKER must give the DEFENDER ample opportunity (as previously defined between the players) to declare his fire before moving on and, before moving another unit, must declare the end of the first unit’s movement at which time it may be fired on as moving."

"Vehicular Facing changes (D2.11) must be declared aloud and followed by an appropriate pause before further movement. Similarly, any moving vehicle planning to unload Passengers/Riders may do so only after an adequate pause following its expenditure of a Stop MP (D2.13)."

So even the question implies a derogatory intent towards players that don't meet some subjective idea of what constitutes an appropriate "speed" for play. So maybe the question ought to be, what is considered too "slow" and/or too "fast".

Using a chess clock is a ridiculous proposition. Chess time is based on x moves in x time (Example: 50 moves in 2hrs). One of the primary objectives in Chess is to simplify the position as quickly as possible to reduce the number of options so that a player can find the right line quicker...so the time needed for each move/decision reduces as the game progresses. How would this work for ASL? It can't...chess has 32 pieces and 64 squares...each piece having a highly limited area of action on any given move...each "move" involves only 1 piece taking one single action. An average ASL scenario could have twice that many pieces and 2-3 x the number of spaces (hexes)...each ASL piece having multiple potential action/activity options across multiple segments of each turn/move. The timing for each of these piece action/activity options are then affected by the potential response action/activity of your opponent's pieces. Add in that some scenarios have highly disproportional force compositions that could give one side or the other an advantage for time conservation. It boggles the mind how one would come up with a fair time for each side in any given ASL scenario.

 

[Tater]

Adjudication is not a very satisfying way to decide who wins, as we all know that ASL can generate so many surprising developments.

FYI...having played competitive Chess for a decade in my youth...adjudication was not uncommon at Chess tourney's. So a clock is not a silver bullet.

 

[Tater]

OK I'll give it to you from a Tournament Director's perspective. In fact, an ex-Tournament Director. The reason I'm an ex-TD being...you guessed it...slow play.

Were the "slow play" rules posted ahead of time? Clearly detailed as to what would be considered "slow play"? Were the "slow play" rules in effect for the championship round?

Respect is a two-way street. Publishing a clear definition and consequences would be respectful for the players.

 

[Martin Mayers]

Were the "slow play" rules posted ahead of time? Clearly detailed as to what would be considered "slow play"? Were the "slow play" rules in effect for the championship round?

Respect is a two-way street. Publishing a clear definition and consequences would be respectful for the players.

Yes. On two occasions prior to the tournament online (in our 'Tournament Magazine' which incorporates all the rules, all the stuff you need to bring if you want to travel light, all the stuff you need to know and so forth). And, re-issued on arrival for those who may have missed it online.

All rules, implications, and so forth very explicitly outlined, though not in a particularly slavish way.

And I couldn't agree more. Respect is a two-way street. Scant little of it shown to me I'm afraid (hence I'm triggered on this thread). But such is life. I won't miss it, and I'm sure no-one will miss me running it. So everyone's happy. And the world will continue turning...

 

[Jazz]

So a clock is not a silver bullet.

Far from it. A mandatory clock only serves as a focus for a slow player's passive-aggressive behavior.

Using a chess clock is an OPTION that two opponents can mutually agree to use for purposes of adding a level of competitive tension...but only if both agree.

 

[Jazz]

I can think of one experienced player who intentionally employs delaying tactics such as disappearing when he is needed to determine sides for a scenario (thus pushing back the start time of the next game/round), questioning every rule (even when shown the rule in the RB), and other such tactics designed to run out the clock. I once waited over two hours for him to show up for our game to determine placement in the top 4. His time delay tactics have been well known for a long time, tournament rules have been written to attempt to minimize the effects of his time delays, and for my own peace of mind I refuse to play him anymore.

Slow play because of not knowing a rule, taking time to plot a final moving turn, or assess an unexpected event are all to be accepted and expected...intentional actions to delay and eat up time is poor sportsmanship in my mind. I know that many will say that my refusal to play him is also an example of poor sportsmanship, which it likely is...but I attend tournaments to see old friends, make new friends, and most importantly, to have fun...getting frustrated at the repeated and obvious delay tactics of this fool is not my definition of fun.

Let him have the plaque or trophy, since it obviously means so much to him...I'll go have some laughs and fun with another opponent.

Semper Fi!
Scott

Anybody who wants to win at ASL that bad is somebody I do not need to play or be around.

I would give them the win and walk away from the game, making sure the TD knows exactly what motivated my actions.

 

[RRschultze]

Yes. On two occasions prior to the tournament online (in our 'Tournament Magazine' which incorporates all the rules, all the stuff you need to bring if you want to travel light, all the stuff you need to know and so forth). And, re-issued on arrival for those who may have missed it online.

All rules, implications, and so forth very explicitly outlined, though not in a particularly slavish way.

And I couldn't agree more. Respect is a two-way street. Scant little of it shown to me I'm afraid (hence I'm triggered on this thread). But such is life. I won't miss it, and I'm sure no-one will miss me running it. So everyone's happy. And the world will continue turning...

I’ll miss you running the tournament. Don’t know the reasons, maybe I don’t want to know. In any event probably not the forum here to ascertain your reasons.

 

[WILLYG]

I'm not a fast player. I don't get that much game play time. When I started playing DTO, it took a lot of rules dives (vehicular dust et al) and play was slow- really,really slow. However, once these rules were waded through, play sped up and skills earned. I've only been to one tournament (three times). I've had the TD say speed it up three matches or so, and in one instance multiple times. In all three cases, one of the players wasn't 'fast' and both players contributed to the slower game in some measure. I was sensitive to the frustration of the TD as we used his time for moderating our match etc.

My take away is to focus on habits of organizing speedier play. Chief among these is - as mentioned above- go ahead and roll the dice! Make a decision and roll to find out the 'role' of the unit. If you have a strategy and learn unit A failed move on! Learning there are four DRM and they add total of X isn't important when the dice are higher- though diligence may prove a hit one desperately needed!
Playing a 'friendly' game also speeds play as you or your opponent help keep one moving along: "roll for spreading blaze". Stating objectives can help also: " I want to move this tank here using bypass and delaying to enter with enough MP to attempt HD and stop with no MP left." This sort of thing is especially helpful to newer and less game time experience players. If you are more competitive you will obviously consider this aiding the enemy. But maybe it will prove to enhance the whole thing because that HD position won't necessarily be the best place for the unit- something your skill and experience may well know.
Finally, I am thankful for my many opponents who have patiently educated me in playing ASL!