macgregr
Member
My Italians can march all over French rail lines without destroying them. Considering I've committed to a rather large amphibious operation for just that purpose, I have to ask...why?
indestructable French rail
- Thread starter macgregr
- Start date
Mantis
Member
Really? That is very odd. Are you checking instantly after converting a hex by moving through it, or on your next turn? (That's the first thing that comes to my head). I doubt that Veers and Mark have changes the settings to that degree...
Perhaps post a .sal file so we can have a peek at this. (Are you playing a PBEM game?)
Perhaps post a .sal file so we can have a peek at this. (Are you playing a PBEM game?)
macgregr
Member
Yes I'm playing pbem. I have a pic posted at Matrix.
macgregr
Member
Now i'm noticing that the bridge I destroyed has been magically repaired, WHILE MY UNIT IS OCCUPYING IT! So much for trying to impede reinforcements by rail in France. 60,000 Italians...:ciao: Ralph?
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Secadegas
Member
Nothing to do with Ralph. It's a designers choice.
From the manual (12.5)
"Automatic Railroad Repair: In most scenarios, both forces have an automatic railroad repair capability. The default value is 1 location per turn, which is repaired when the program performs automatic bookkeeping. This is in addition to the railroad repair capability of any units on the map. The auto rail repair code is reasonably intelligent. It attempts to recreate destroyed supply nets from supply sources out to the edges of the map."
macgregr
Member
So what we have is a scenario where bridges can be repaired by forces that don't even occupy them? Dude, this is not right. Scenario designer or game programmer, I don't care....this is not realistic, which I believe the game is striving for. I'm pointing it out.If those responsible are going to defend this then one or the other is losing my confidence.
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Mark Stevens
Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
It is a corps level game, and we didn't want - say like in FitE (fine scenario though it is) - great chains of tiny railway repair and engineer units labouring away in the rear areas, so we have set automatic repair fairly high. The relatively scarce RR, and engineers, with bridge and RR repair capability are for those times when you just have to mend that one crucial junction or bridge.
On the other hand I must agree that - if I've understood you correctly - they're repairing even in enemy occupied territory it seems odd. Are you certain that you're not confusing this with them being repaired by your own side, i.e. as soon as your opponent occupies the railroads they'll appear broken again?
Individual bridge hexes I'm not so certain about, but I don't think the bridge itself can auto-repair, although the railway line running over it can, BUT UNDER YOUR SIDE'S CONTROL, i.e. will break as mentioned above if the enemy recapture it.
Does that answer your question?
On the other hand I must agree that - if I've understood you correctly - they're repairing even in enemy occupied territory it seems odd. Are you certain that you're not confusing this with them being repaired by your own side, i.e. as soon as your opponent occupies the railroads they'll appear broken again?
Individual bridge hexes I'm not so certain about, but I don't think the bridge itself can auto-repair, although the railway line running over it can, BUT UNDER YOUR SIDE'S CONTROL, i.e. will break as mentioned above if the enemy recapture it.
Does that answer your question?
macgregr
Member
Well thanks for trying Mark. Overall it's a great scenario. It's probably my favorite. Certainly one of the 'essentials'. But having a bridge repair it self under your feet seems strange. I'll blow it up again
Raver
TOAW Ironman
Ahem! Of course that would add a certain strategic element to where and when you choose to repair your rail.
Noxious
Member
No, as you said, you were occupying the hex : you repaired it
macgregr
Member
So if I blow it up he may automatically repair it but only after a turn. I guess that's all I can expect.
Mark Stevens
Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
Sorry to keep on, but I want to make sure we're clear: a blown bridge (i.e. a road or major road crossing a river or major river) in a hex under your control WON'T repair itself in this game. A rail line in the same hex may, but it will be 'your' rail hex, so it will automatically break if retaken by the enemy.
Once back under enemy control the rail line (not the bridge) may automatically repair itself (or be repaired by an RR unit). The bridge itself can only be repaired by a unit with engineering capability.
I think that's reasonable, and the rail lines hardly qualify as 'indestructible'.
Once back under enemy control the rail line (not the bridge) may automatically repair itself (or be repaired by an RR unit). The bridge itself can only be repaired by a unit with engineering capability.
I think that's reasonable, and the rail lines hardly qualify as 'indestructible'.
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Heldenkaiser
Member
This is an only slightly related question (my apologies), but while I've never seen railroads repair themselves (but then maybe I wouldn't have noticed), I have seen plenty of railroads destroy themselves. Especially in Italy in my present West Front 1944/45 game. I have three repair crews working their way up the Italian boot, one on each line, and every other turn I discover a destroyed section way in their rear, with no German unit within 500 miles. Any idea how this happens? I am aware enemy railroads get destroyed frequently when I conquer them, but I thought once I repair them, I "own" them and that no longer happens. Am I wrong? :surprise:
Thanks!
Thanks!
I checked the scenario events and found nothing suspicious such as a guerrilla event or a falsely placed supply point. Also the deep water hexes adjacent to the coastal hexes contain nothing than deep water (an urban area in german possession, but in a deep water hex will never be converted to allied control, but will convert adjacent land hexes if not occuppied by an enemy unit - this is only visible in the editor..though afaik rail lines don't get destroyed if they change ownership by checking unit ZOCs in the bookkeeping phase - i may be wrong, though)This is an only slightly related question (my apologies), but while I've never seen railroads repair themselves (but then maybe I wouldn't have noticed), I have seen plenty of railroads destroy themselves. Especially in Italy in my present West Front 1944/45 game. I have three repair crews working their way up the Italian boot, one on each line, and every other turn I discover a destroyed section way in their rear, with no German unit within 500 miles. Any idea how this happens? I am aware enemy railroads get destroyed frequently when I conquer them, but I thought once I repair them, I "own" them and that no longer happens. Am I wrong? :surprise:
Thanks!
So, maybe Marc has something left behind in your rear?
Or maybe just get new glasses :clown:
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Mark Stevens
Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
"So, maybe Marc has something left behind in your rear?"
I believe that they're just good friends. :clown:
I believe that they're just good friends. :clown:
Heldenkaiser
Member
Italy's too narrow for that (i.e. for Germans being there without my seeing them). Besides, occasionally this happens right under my nose. I have even seen units repair rails and next turn they're gone again while the repair crew's still sitting in the hex. :shy:
nemo
-. . -- ---
Wish I had, but no, not even a RSI battalion
Secadegas
Member
Totally agree with your option.
But curiously enough I can't find any automatic rail repair on the events list. :hmmm:
So beeing the automatic rail repair should be 1 repaired location per turn but we all know that's not the case...
Am I getting (too) old or what? :nuts:
Mark Stevens
Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
The game was originally designed using the old engine which had very limited Events, so we got round it by 'saving' some things into the scenario itself (this was a clever trick by Ulver) - rail repair was one of the things we could do it with.
Then TOAW III came along and the conversion was made, and we never went right back into it and redid it properly.
So I think you're right, there isn't actually an Event called automatic repair, but - as ruefully noted earlier by MacGregor, it's in there all right.
Then TOAW III came along and the conversion was made, and we never went right back into it and redid it properly.
So I think you're right, there isn't actually an Event called automatic repair, but - as ruefully noted earlier by MacGregor, it's in there all right.
Just that we don't misunderstand - you order the rail repair unit to 'repair railroad' and the railroad is then immediately repaired while the rail repair unit's movement points are reduced to 0. You hear the 'clack clack' sound, the info panel at the bottom of the map screen shows 'railroad' (and not 'railroad damaged') when you hover the mouse over it?
Then, next turn, the rail in that same hex is again destroyed?
If you can answer all this confidently with JA then observe it closely weiterhin. Seems odd, maybe a bug?