Heretical OBA rules

Do you use the heretical OBA rule when you play an ASL scenario?

  • yes, every game with OBA

    Votes: 9 27.3%
  • if we determine the OBA module is critical to the scenario

    Votes: 11 33.3%
  • never, not a chance..... heretic!

    Votes: 13 39.4%

  • Total voters
    33

Roy

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I was recently burned with the double red card while trying to get some OBA down in a scenario where it was critical that the side I was playing get at least one mission down. I know this has happened to almost every ASL veteran player at some point.

Nowadays, scenario designers who feel that a mission is critical for one side will provide an automatic black chit for the first draw. This was an older scenario without such a provision.

I would like to get an idea if Steve's heretical OBA rule that places a drawn red card back in the pile so a module can be stopped without permanently losing the OBA module is used fairly widely, because I am considering asking for it's implementation in games I play, no matter whether I have the module or not.

Thanks!
 

von Marwitz

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I think I decide on a case to case basis or even at the time the "problem" of two red cards appearing for the first time.
Basically, I think that the Pleva-OBA-heresy is a good one and have to issue to use it all the time.
German GRENADIER tournament has is active as a special tournament rule for any scenarios involving OBA.

von Marwitz
 
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Michael Dorosh

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One might avoid whatever stigma is associated with these rules by just calling them 'variants' instead of 'heresy'....particularly for something that makes as much sense as it does with respect to game balance.
 
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Roy

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One might avoid whatever stigma is associated with these rules by just calling them 'variants' instead of 'heresy'....particularly for something that makes as much sense as it does with respect to game balance.
Good point. So you implement them?
 

JR Brackin

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Remember that the scenarios were playtested based on the rules as is - if there were special rules for OBA they would state it in the SSRs
 

Michael Dorosh

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Good point. So you implement them?
I think we've done so on occasion. Perhaps not even with prior agreement - but stuff comes up to basically end a scenario, we'll readjust on the fly. After spending 30 minutes or 60 minutes pulling counters, studying the board, setting it up, and having someone's OBA borked on turn 2, kind of makes all the prep seem like a waste of time.
 

Roy

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I can speak for myself and those who I know playtest. If you are not playtesting to the rules as required along with any SSRs than you are not really providing an honest feedback to the designer or company who you are doing the playtesting.
Regarding PT. I would definitely play a PT scenario as written. I am talking about your usual casual game with your usual opponents. Sitting down to play a 6 hour scenario and spending 5 of those hours getting mowed down because you didn't get the smoke from your OBA seems like a downer.
I like the fact that scenario designers are giving you a free mission now when they deem it critical, but it has not been so until fairly recently in ASL history, I think.
 

xenovin

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Sometimes the designer gives you a module just for the SR as that is enough to alter your opponent’s plan!

Regarding PT. I would definitely play a PT scenario as written. I am talking about your usual casual game with your usual opponents. Sitting down to play a 6 hour scenario and spending 5 of those hours getting mowed down because you didn't get the smoke from your OBA seems like a downer.
I like the fact that scenario designers are giving you a free mission now when they deem it critical, but it has not been so until fairly recently in ASL history, I think.
 

Sparafucil3

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I can speak for myself and those who I know playtest. If you are not playtesting to the rules as required along with any SSRs than you are not really providing an honest feedback to the designer or company who you are doing the playtesting.
You can't convince me that a scenario that has OBA on the card is balanced if I get two red cards as my first two pulls. If it is still balanced, then take it out. Getting it unbalances an otherwise good scenario. If it isn't balanced without the OBA, then protect me against a double red, which is what the Pleva variant does. I believe Steve has done the math and the mission count doesn't vary too much from one to the other at around 6 turns or less. You would have to ask Steve for the math (or get someone smarter than I to do it).

Personally, unless there is an SSR to the effect "The first card is black", I won't play an OBA scenario without these rules in play for the above stated reason. JMO, YMMV. -- jim
 
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Vic Provost

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If in a tournament I would play as is but otherwise play with Steve's OBA rule if my opponent agrees, sure sucks to lose your OBA without ever getting it and losing because of it, Vic.
 

Michael Dorosh

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I can speak for myself and those who I know playtest. If you are not playtesting to the rules as required along with any SSRs than you are not really providing an honest feedback to the designer or company who you are doing the playtesting.
No argument, I just wonder how useful your feedback is if you say "game ended on Turn 3 when OBA was cancelled." I would think the urge to offer a mulligan on the chit draw would be even greater in a PT as opposed to a regular playing, since

a) OBA was supplied as part of the balance and
b) someone was depending on the game being played to completion
 
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JR Brackin

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No argument, I just wonder how useful your feedback is if you say "game ended on Turn 3 when OBA was cancelled." I would think the urge to offer a mulligan on the chit draw would be even greater in a PT as opposed to a regular playing, since

a) OBA was supplied as part of the balance and
b) someone was depending on the game being played to completion
Understood - but is that not feedback to the designer that he needs to come up with a better method. I agree it is better with either the Pleva rule or the first chit is black, but the question is if it is not, then do you change it. For me you do not.

Some persons will refuse as Jim notes above, that if there is OBA, and an offer of a guaranteed mission is not there , then they will not play the scenario. That's fine - I have met those persons and we play another scenario. Personally I do not stop playing those particular scenarios, and if I lose due to that so be it. But I do not invoke house rules on OBA.
 

Sparafucil3

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Personally I do not stop playing those particular scenarios, and if I lose due to that so be it. But I do not invoke house rules on OBA.
Yet you play with the IIFT, the one institutionalized house rule :p -- jim
 
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Sparafucil3

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It is an optional official rule, not a house rule.

JR
ASLRB said:
House Rule: any mutually agreed upon method for speeding up play, or adjusting the official rules for a particular group’s own enjoyment or convenience)
A rose by any other name ... ;) -- jim

Edit to add: Just so long as you all know, I am just pulling your legs. I hope you all know I am not serious about this because I really think the whole table debate is silly.
 
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bendizoid

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Even in tournaments I give my opponent the option of the Pleva Rule for OBA. I just did in my last game of Acts of Defiance.
 

62nd Army

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If in a tournament I would play as is but otherwise play with Steve's OBA rule if my opponent agrees, sure sucks to lose your OBA without ever getting it and losing because of it, Vic.

I am with Vic on this.

I like Steve's rule, but would modify it by having the first RED card reduce the effectiveness of the OBA, either it gets
"weaker", make it harassing fire or NO FFE:C is placed, automatic cancellation?

Thnaks
Joe
 

semenza

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If a scenario has OBA it is almost always critical to the balance. If the fire missions go down the middle then all is fine. But no OBA or too much OBA tends to break the scenario. The extremes of OBA are much more telling and difficult to recover from than other extremes such as a bunch of malfunctioned weapons.

A lot of the early scenarios that had OBA suffer from this problem even more than recent ones.

Seth
 
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