Hatten In Flames available for pre-order

[Sparky]

The obvious point is - for winterised counters to "work" - that all the potential counters that may be used for each nationality in the HASL must be the same colour (to "look good" and to make sure that concealment works properly - ie all counters in a stack are the same colour). That means every grade of squad, every grade of half squad, concealment counters in both sizes, all 1/2" support weapons, all ordonance, all vehicles etc etc etc. Lots and lots of extra counter sheets that I would guess a whole lot of players don't want (and don't want to pay the extra cost).
The next problem is that Hatten comes with two extra countersheets - I presume for the extra numbers needed for some units. If MMP did supply the "boatload" of extra winterised countersheets then they would still have to supply these extra two sheets in the standard counters so that regular guys (ie non winterised fan boys) could use them.

Lastly, although I am sure MMP can speak for themselves, I bet my bottom dollar they would rather be using their scarce resource/time working on more meaningful projects than "winterising" counters!

are we on the same page here. I am talking about the artwork of the counter. Not changing the actual color of the counter.

I think you are overstating the scope and difficulty of it. Most non elite units did not get winter camo. Especially on the western front, this was not Russia where you had snow for 6 damn months haha. Really the most you saw on the west front from non elite units was white washing the tanks.

As I said man, baby steps. and the most important point. FUN!!!!

Maybe, at most perhaps a half sheet. As I said in my first post, live a little bit. As I alluded to before. Winter camo in Hatten could be a starting point, If they did improved counters, bigger and better artwork with color. They'd be sitting on gold mine. Quick calculation. Easily 6 figures worth. The posts here seem to tell me you all really underestimate the appeal of modern counters to a substantial portion of the ASL gen pop. That money is going to others. It could be MMP's. My whole point in a nutshell. I wish MMP would do them, I think they'd be killer.

Their decision though.

 

[bprobst]

are we on the same page here.

Well, what I heard is that you were prepared to spend your entire "paycheck" (do people really still get paid by cheque these days?) on subsidising future MMP counter runs. Which is plenty noble of you, I guess, but man, where are you going to sleep, and what are you going to eat? I think your sense of priorities is totally out of whack.

While I understand that you speak for "lots" of people (I'm sure you have a detailed list of their names and addresses; you should probably give that to MMP too), I speak entirely for myself in saying that I don't need or want to pay for alternate counters that do nothing that my existing counters don't already do, and will probably be harder to read to boot. (Particularly if I'm going to only ever use them once or twice!) It's possible that some other people may agree with me, but alas, I have no list of names and addresses.

 

[robh91]

They'd be sitting on gold mine. Quick calculation. Easily 6 figures worth.

Quick calculation. Say a thousand preorders of Hatten @ $45. Maybe they make $10 per game net profit (a wild guess). $10,000 net profit.
Where/how is the other $90,000 going to come if the counters are "winterised". Are they suddenly going to sell ten thousand copies?

 

[Jeffrey D Myers]

Quick calculation. Say a thousand preorders of Hatten @ $45. Maybe they make $10 per game net profit (a wild guess). $10,000 net profit.
Where/how is the other $90,000 going to come if the counters are "winterised". Are they suddenly going to sell ten thousand copies?

I can't handle all this cross-Melbourne traffic....

 

[Robin Reeve]

Colorized counters are less easy to read : the case has been proven by the display of colorized counters in the present thread.

Investing time in creating a new set of counters is investing less time in other projects. I rely on MMP to have a good sense of priorities.

TPP already publish colorized counters: why should MMP double up doing it, as the customers interested in such products already can get them?
TPP are doing well by being complementary to MMP.

 

[wrongway149]

It does : the CH coloured vehicles are much more difficult to identify.
Nothing can save CH from mediocrity.

Just remember - every scenario I have designed was play tested initially with official MMP counters. So if you play using any 3rd-party components, please don't come on here complaining about balance.

 

[Jeffrey D Myers]

We trust also that only official MMP dice were used in face-to-face playtesting?

 

[pensatl1962]

I am between 13 - 18 --> five orders occurred in the time it took to order. Minimum need is 800 - goal by tomorrow - go for it,

Thanks - I never checked the actual "preorder" page. That would 'splain it.

 

[Andrew Rogers]

We trust also that only official MMP dice were used in face-to-face playtesting?

When we initially playtested Hatten we used the official original Squad Leader dice that were close to 40 years old (the 'vintage' red dice), complemented by some old school counters. Unfortunately, the dice a number of the 'pips' were worn off and the 3 ROF weapons had a field day. Very messy.

 

[tailesin]

I love the original ASL counters. You can read them and distinguish one vehicle from the others. Please never change that.
Colour counters of TTP sometimes are nice, but seldom readable enough and vehicleas are totally unidentifyable...

 

[wrongway149]

We trust also that only official MMP dice were used in face-to-face playtesting?

From my MMP dice lamp.

 

[Houlie]

From my MMP dice lamp.

Ha! I remember that, Pete. You won the dice lamp and I won the counter lamp at Winter Offensive -- AND the Schilling autographed jersey.

 

[Mr Incredible]

They should bring out an "old school" set of counters.

Essentially SL counters updated to ASL format.

Now that would be retro.

 

[Hutch]

My dice...

 

[Binchois]

My dice...

I trust that the top and bottom side of these dice add up to 7 and not 2... yes?:wtf:

 

[wrongway149]

Ha! I remember that, Pete. You won the dice lamp and I won the counter lamp at Winter Offensive -- AND the Schilling autographed jersey.

That lamp helped me get laid-- and then married.

 

[wrongway149]

They should bring out an "old school" set of counters.

Essentially SL counters updated to ASL format.

Now that would be retro.

I've always wondered my they didn't just stick with that font.

 

[von Marwitz]

That lamp helped me get laid-- and then married.

Who said ASL couldn't help one with the females?

von Marwitz

 

[Sparky]

Quick calculation. Say a thousand preorders of Hatten @ $45. Maybe they make $10 per game net profit (a wild guess). $10,000 net profit.
Where/how is the other $90,000 going to come if the counters are "winterised". Are they suddenly going to sell ten thousand copies?

I wasn't talking about Hatten. Hatten is the baby step in doing improved counters and the easiest for the reasons mentioned.

A baby set to doing Nationality sets for those that want them. It sounds MMP is having this dicussion regarding improved counters so perhaps they are hip to the fact that while the forum fishbowlers heredon't care, you are a mere fraction of the playing population, and a lot do, and will pay big bucks to have them.

Easy math actually. Do up 4 core nationality sets with improved modern colored coutners. German, English, American, Russian. I went low in my estimates. Figure 500 players would want them, and I do think that is low as roughly a quarter to fifth of gen ASL pop. Charge 50 bucks a set.

That is a 100k pumped right to MMP. My point is and always has been. Those people are out there and willing to pay more, and considering MMP's high standards, for less. I think my estimates are low. As far as the work required, seems 1 man operations have done it. Is that above MMP's resources? Horseshit. MMP has so much goodwill out there with the ASL gen pop I'd be inclined to believe that if they merely asked, they'd have a saloon full of artistically and tech inclined volunteers that would do the hard work for them.

 

[robh91]

I wasn't talking about Hatten. Hatten is the baby step in doing improved counters and the easiest for the reasons mentioned.

A baby set to doing Nationality sets for those that want them. It sounds MMP is having this dicussion regarding improved counters so perhaps they are hip to the fact that while the forum fishbowlers heredon't care, you are a mere fraction of the playing population, and a lot do, and will pay big bucks to have them.

Easy math actually. Do up 4 core nationality sets with improved modern colored coutners. German, English, American, Russian. I went low in my estimates. Figure 500 players would want them, and I do think that is low as roughly a quarter to fifth of gen ASL pop. Charge 50 bucks a set.

That is a 100k pumped right to MMP. My point is and always has been. Those people are out there and willing to pay more, and considering MMP's high standards, for less. I think my estimates are low. As far as the work required, seems 1 man operations have done it. Is that above MMP's resources? Horseshit. MMP has so much goodwill out there with the ASL gen pop I'd be inclined to believe that if they merely asked, they'd have a saloon full of artistically and tech inclined volunteers that would do the hard work for them.

1. MMP have lots and lots of projects stacked up, and given their limited resources, this will keep them busy for years, maybe decades.
2. I am sure they know how to run the business the way they want to run it. The business may not necessarily be run to maximise profits - rather as a labour of love.
3. My goodness reading the 500th idea on “how MMP could run their business better” is really boring...