Farenhait 9/11

JAMiAM

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WestPointer said:
No ... it's not a good question. The FBI DID question the members of the family. Start from the beginning of this thread and you'll see that. Here's one post where I discuss that issue. There are more.
Let's see here, Brent...the members of the family were "questioned" and allowed to fly out of the country within a couple of days, yet two YEARS later, we still have people locked up at Gitmo, many of whom were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, or turned in, because someone had a grudge against them. Too bad the FBI couldn't show the same diligence and intensity of questioning in their case. If they did, then we probably would have captured OBL already, instead of waiting for Dubya the Magnificent to pull him out of his hat, like a stage rabbit, in the upcoming October surprise.

Seems to be a double standard going here...

And don't forget...you heard it here, first!
 

JAMiAM

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purdyrc said:
Some of these people had just seen Osama a few months prior. Why weren't they subjected to more detailed scrutiny? Why were they hustled out of the country so quickly?

- Rick
One word: Money and Connections!
 

purdyrc

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WestPointer said:
No ... it's not a good question. The FBI DID question the members of the family. Start from the beginning of this thread and you'll see that. Here's one post where I discuss that issue. There are more.
Actually, it turns out that many of these "people of interest" were met by the FBI and questioned "on the tarmac" or "onboard the aircraft just prior to departure." No time at all for a thorough questioning. There wasn't even time for a good "working over" to extract info! ;)

- Rick
 

Slick

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What would this world be like without The Conspiracy Theory!

My favorite one of all…Hollywood staged the Apollo moon landings!

:bored:
 
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Richa333

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JAM! I love it! "Dubya The Magnificent!?" That tickled me fancy... nice turn o' phrase.

I still disagree with you tho'. Now you're right in the Michael Moore crowd, d***ning the Administration for asking questions then d****ning then for not asking enough: "So when did you stop beating your wife?"

Regards Gitmo: That place is NOT full of people detained from inside the U.S., it's mostly full of people captured in combat. If guns, grenades, plots or etc. had been found in the bin Laden family possession, they'd be in Gitmo too. 'Money & Connections?' No, you're selling but I'm not buying.
 

chrisvalla

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'Dubya the Magnificent and his Texas Magic'? Watch as I wield my military and *poof*... democracy appears... :laugh: I'm picturing Rumsfeld, Rice, and Cheney sitting around a globe while GW spins it and points to a country... that image will be stuck in my head for a good day.
 
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Andrey

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Don Maddox said:
Don't trust anything you hear from Michael Moore.
It is Soviet times words - do not hear it, do not look it, close your ears, close your eyes! It is practically all what Michael Moore enemies are able to say (oh, also they found some his small mistakes (if it were mistakes!!! may be it were not mistakes) and speak about it, but they do not speak arguments against main conclusions of Moore)

I also sometimes speak it about Western mass media but it is because it is impossible fot Western readers or spectators to check that info what they know in Western mass media.

In case of Moore he gives those facts which can be checked by Americans who can make own conclusions on base of these facts.

I NEVER heard that ANYONE refuted ANY Moore's facts about Presidental elections in Florida in 2000. Read these facts and make own conclusions about that how Bush became President.
 

CyberRanger

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JAMiAM said:
Let's see here, Brent...the members of the family were "questioned" and allowed to fly out of the country within a couple of days, yet two YEARS later, we still have people locked up at Gitmo, many of whom were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, or turned in, because someone had a grudge against them. Too bad the FBI couldn't show the same diligence and intensity of questioning in their case. If they did, then we probably would have captured OBL already, instead of waiting for Dubya the Magnificent to pull him out of his hat, like a stage rabbit, in the upcoming October surprise.

Seems to be a double standard going here...

And don't forget...you heard it here, first!
I totally agree. US citizens should be calling for justice (a speedy trial, charges at least) or freedom for these individuals.
 

CyberRanger

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Andrey said:
I NEVER heard that ANYONE refuted ANY Moore's facts about Presidental elections in Florida in 2000. Read these facts and make own conclusions about that how Bush became President.
If you are talking about Moore's allegations that the Bush (George and his FL governor brother) family, purposefully disenfranchised predominately Democratic voting blocks, you haven't looked very hard. The FL legislature (Democrat controlled at the time) caused the FL voter rolls to be throughly reviewed after it came to light that many convicted felons were registered voters during the Miami mayoral race.

Here are just a couple articles:

The Myth of the Stolen Election

In Florida, Wrestling Again Over Felons and Voting

Quick quote from the last article -
From the NY Times - The state began compiling lists of possible felons and trying to weed them from the voter rolls in the late 1990's, after a mayoral election in Miami had been overturned because convicted felons had voted.
btw - this thread really should be in politics.
 

17poundr

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Andrey said:
It is Soviet times words - do not hear it, do not look it, close your ears, close your eyes! It is practically all what Michael Moore enemies are able to say (oh, also they found some his small mistakes (if it were mistakes!!! may be it were not mistakes) and speak about it, but they do not speak arguments against main conclusions of Moore)

I also sometimes speak it about Western mass media but it is because it is impossible fot Western readers or spectators to check that info what they know in Western mass media.

In case of Moore he gives those facts which can be checked by Americans who can make own conclusions on base of these facts.

I NEVER heard that ANYONE refuted ANY Moore's facts about Presidental elections in Florida in 2000. Read these facts and make own conclusions about that how Bush became President.
I agree it was very very suspicious, that the election hang on a balance that gore got more votes but, because of an arcahic election method, didnt count.
Then all hangs from a state run by bush's brother, and that state discualifies the critical amount of votes for gore that would have made him president, on the grounds that the stamping machines had gone off the lines a bit, and thus were discualified!
As if these votes could not have been called for another vote with a new machine.
Also something weird about where the 'cross for gore' boxes were located somehow, that these weird voting machine discounts occured more easily, because they were on the edge of the line, or something RIDICULOUS!
This is like reading something out of an African dirty diamond states elections...
Sorry these votes are disqualifyed because a mechanical error???
Pleas explain, without political biase... Deltapooh, come to my aid.
And all you others, please forget the war, and think back to the elections before, and say nothing fishy was going on???

Another thing, before the war, g.w. bush was almost half the time away, well you can work out of office with all the tech muscle of the us behind you.
But for a President to set this example...
and after the so called 'winning of the war' speech, I truly think that a 'boo boo' like that from someone like Montgomery during ww2, would have made the americans demand he be garrotted and burned.
And all the time Colin Powell the soldier, is going about, half unnoticed, speaking sence, and finally saying Iraq is a mess.
About time.
By the way, I think the way Moore used that woman, who lost a son, was unforgivable, he maybe really wanted to get across the grief of one family to the people who talk of 'only' one thousand.
But it came out tasteless.
And interwieving 18 year olds who are not known for their good taste and diplomatic mannors, and putting on their 'war song' while showing burning wrecks whrere real people had died...
Well that was as tasteless as the young soldiers choosing of music for battle.
In ww2 they did it with style at least, some us tanks crews went into action with a loudspeaker playing jazz, now, that is kind of cool!
Infact a popular song i believe was 'in the mood', just to show they had a very good sence of gravedigger humour, with taste and whit.
But now I'm babbling again. :hush:
 

Stage

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Andrey said:
As I understood current public hates Michael Moore.

They hate his because they are "patriots" and Bush followers, Moore is enemy of Bush so he is bad guy for public here.

I discussed "Bowling for Columbine" and books of Moore with similar public in other site, they speak that "all his data is right but he is wrong in any case". He is wrong only because he is Michael Moore.

For example, Moore describes how Bush became president illegally. Opponents of Moore confirm that all his data is true but speak that ... Moore is wrong commonly. For me, even if part of facts of Moore about that case is right so Bush became president with many violations. But "patriotic" US public disagree wit it and it is strange for me...

Did you believe Mein Kampf as well? Just because it's been printed doesn't mean it's true.
 

Stage

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17poundr said:
I agree it was very very suspicious, that the election hang on a balance that gore got more votes but, because of an arcahic election method, didnt count.
Then all hangs from a state run by bush's brother, and that state discualifies the critical amount of votes for gore that would have made him president, on the grounds that the stamping machines had gone off the lines a bit, and thus were discualified!
As if these votes could not have been called for another vote with a new machine.
Also something weird about where the 'cross for gore' boxes were located somehow, that these weird voting machine discounts occured more easily, because they were on the edge of the line, or something RIDICULOUS!
This is like reading something out of an African dirty diamond states elections...
Sorry these votes are disqualifyed because a mechanical error???
Pleas explain, without political biase... Deltapooh, come to my aid.
And all you others, please forget the war, and think back to the elections before, and say nothing fishy was going on???

Another thing, before the war, g.w. bush was almost half the time away, well you can work out of office with all the tech muscle of the us behind you.
But for a President to set this example...
and after the so called 'winning of the war' speech, I truly think that a 'boo boo' like that from someone like Montgomery during ww2, would have made the americans demand he be garrotted and burned.
And all the time Colin Powell the soldier, is going about, half unnoticed, speaking sence, and finally saying Iraq is a mess.
About time.
By the way, I think the way Moore used that woman, who lost a son, was unforgivable, he maybe really wanted to get across the grief of one family to the people who talk of 'only' one thousand.
But it came out tasteless.
And interwieving 18 year olds who are not known for their good taste and diplomatic mannors, and putting on their 'war song' while showing burning wrecks whrere real people had died...
Well that was as tasteless as the young soldiers choosing of music for battle.
In ww2 they did it with style at least, some us tanks crews went into action with a loudspeaker playing jazz, now, that is kind of cool!
Infact a popular song i believe was 'in the mood', just to show they had a very good sence of gravedigger humour, with taste and whit.
But now I'm babbling again. :hush:
Guys, for God's sake stop trying to form judgements about my country based on what you've seen in a friggin' MOVIE!!!!! Are you really that gullible? Have you ever even BEEN to America??? If so, for how long? A week, maybe? Whatever. I don't even know why I'm getting angry about this. You live in your countrys and I live in mine, thank God.
 

Andrey

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Stage said:
Did you believe Mein Kampf as well? Just because it's been printed doesn't mean it's true.
I analize facts which are written not believe in any written text.
 

Andrey

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Stage said:
Guys, for God's sake stop trying to form judgements about my country based on what you've seen in a friggin' MOVIE!!!!! Are you really that gullible? Have you ever even BEEN to America??? If so, for how long? A week, maybe? Whatever. I don't even know why I'm getting angry about this. You live in your countrys and I live in mine, thank God.
Oh, do you suppose that we knew all about America from alone that movie? Do you suppose that we didn't know anything about your country before looking this movie?

You are ready to speak about WWII for example, but any Nazi also can say you that you have no to discuss it because you PERSONALLY never visited Third Reich but knew all your facts from books, movies, documentaries and so on.

And more, to visit Third Reich doesn't mean to know truth, many Germans lived nearly concentration camps but didn't know about those horrific things which happened there. But during WWII Americans who lived in other part of Earth knew more truth about Third Reich crimes than Germans which lived there. It was because German mass media spoke false and many Germans trusted to their mass media. They also were 100% sure that their country is right and all bad things about their country is only anti-German propaganda of their enemies.
 
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Andrey

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Stage said:
Very well, how do you know about America?
It is not clever question.

I only can say that I have very many sources, much more than Americans have for knowledge about Russia. And I suppose that I have enough information about America.
 

Andrey

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WestPointer said:
If you are talking about Moore's allegations that the Bush (George and his FL governor brother) family, purposefully disenfranchised predominately Democratic voting blocks, you haven't looked very hard. The FL legislature (Democrat controlled at the time) caused the FL voter rolls to be throughly reviewed after it came to light that many convicted felons were registered voters during the Miami mayoral race.

Here are just a couple articles:

The Myth of the Stolen Election

In Florida, Wrestling Again Over Felons and Voting
OK, it is difficult for me but I read these articles.

First article disputes only with some of facts of Moore. I have no text of Moore for analizing and I do not remember exactly what exactly he spoke so I can not speak about it right now, it is necessary to compare exact words of Moore and author of this article. But... author of this article doesn't speak about some most famous facts - about "felons" list where non-felons were and who couldn't vote and about oversea voters outside US. I recall these two examples from my memory but may be there are also some other facts which were not disputed in article.

Second article is not about elections 2000 BUT... This article describes how authorities decided to remove those mistakes and violations which were in 2000 so this article means that these mistakes and violations really were in 2000. So second article contradicts to first article in conclusions about correctness of Moore's facts.
 

purdyrc

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Andrey said:
I have no text of Moore for analizing and I do not remember exactly what exactly he spoke ...
Go to www.MichaelMoore.com and click on the "Facts of F9/11" link. You'll see a line-by-line fact and footnote of the movie with links to source documents as appropriate.

- Rick
 
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