Dug-in Tanks in Red Barricades.

[rixster1]

Can a Tank be dug-in in a factory debris hex?

 

[EagleIV]

No since Dug In Tanks/Armored Cupolas are not allowed in buildings (and therefore factories with or without debris).

 

[rixster1]

Who are you Eagle IV?

 

[EagleIV]

Fred Timm out in the San Diego area.

 

[Russ Isaia]

No since Dug In Tanks/Armored Cupolas are not allowed in buildings (and therefore factories with or without debris).

What about B24.1 - "A rubbled Location is no longer a building Location?"

No insight into the Red Barricades rules, however, so maybe the answer is otherwise there?

 

[jrv]

What about B24.1 - "A rubbled Location is no longer a building Location?"

No insight into the Red Barricades rules, however, so maybe the answer is otherwise there?

Debris is not rubble, rubble is not debris. There is no rule connecting them.

JR

 

[Russ Isaia]

What about B24.1 - "A rubbled Location is no longer a building Location?"

No insight into the Red Barricades rules, however, so maybe the answer is otherwise there?

But armored cupolas cannot be placed in rubble so maybe that is the answer? 9.52,

 

[Russ Isaia]

Debris is not rubble, rubble is not debris. There is no rule connecting them.

JR

Ok, but now I see that armored cupolas can be set up in debris. D9.52. So why not in debris that is a factory hex?

 

[EagleIV]

Ok, but now I see that armored cupolas can be set up in debris. D9.52. So why not in debris that is a factory hex?

Again debris in a factory is both a debris and a building location and dug in tanks are not allowed in ANY type of building hex.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

But armored cupolas cannot be placed in rubble so maybe that is the answer? 9.52,

As a side note I seem to recall that in RB they can also set up in rubble.

 

[Gunner Scott]

This is correct. the Rule is buried under the Dug in tanks RG rules. Kind of a weird placement but that's where its at.

As a side note I seem to recall that in RB they can also set up in rubble.

 

[clubby]

Scott's post got me doing some rulebook reading and this one has me stumped:

9.53 SIZE: The Target Size (1.7) of an Armored Cupola is always small (+1). It is not considered HD and Hit Location (C3.9) is NA.

If it's not considered HD and hit location is NA, how do you determine a if and where you hit versus an Armored Cupola?

 

[jrv]

Scott's post got me doing some rulebook reading and this one has me stumped:

9.53 SIZE: The Target Size (1.7) of an Armored Cupola is always small (+1). It is not considered HD and Hit Location (C3.9) is NA.

If it's not considered HD and hit location is NA, how do you determine a if and where you hit versus an Armored Cupola?

If you get a hit (TH DR +TH DRM < Modified TH#), you hit the armored turret. If you don't get a hit (TH DR +TH DRM > Modified TH#), you missed.

JR

 

[clubby]

If you get a hit (TH DR +TH DRM < Modified TH#), you hit the armored turret. If you don't get a hit (TH DR +TH DRM > Modified TH#), you missed.

JR

So the Armored Cupola is always small and that's the only target modifier for the TH? I'm assuming it also receives TEM if set up in the woods or behind a wall? Thanks.

 

[jrv]

So the Armored Cupola is always small and that's the only target modifier for the TH? I'm assuming it also receives TEM if set up in the woods or behind a wall?

It receives any target modifier applicable: Hindrance, TEM, concealed (they can be concealed, right?), point blank, acquisition, bore-sighted location, etc.

JR

 

[clubby]

9.52 PLACEMENT: An Armored Cupola can be placed only in brush, grain, woods, orchard, Shellhole, debris (O1.), or Open Ground hexes as if it were a pillbox (B30.1). Although it cannot leave or be pushed out of its hex, it is free to change its TCA 360 degrees. An Armored Cupola is never eligible for concealment and leaves no wreck. An Armored Cupola set up directly behind a wall/hedge is always assumed to have Wall Advantage over those hexsides unless it is Abandoned/in-Melee or its inherent crew is stunned/shocked.

 

[jrv]

An Armored Cupola is never eligible for concealment

I thought I remembered something about concealment. Anyway, all the other target-based DRM might apply, although it would be tricky to get "moving target."

JR

 

[Russ Isaia]

. . . dug in tanks are not allowed in ANY type of building hex.

I don't want to be a pain, but is that stated somewhere in the RB? I see only statements as to where armored cupolas/dug in tanks may be placed (B9.52, quoted in #16, and O11.6194(c)). No Q&As on point either (but I checked only the compilation).

 

[clubby]

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but it's what I saw when I was reading up.

9.52 PLACEMENT: An Armored Cupola can be placed only in brush, grain, woods, orchard, Shellhole, debris (O1.), or Open Ground hexes as if it were a pillbox (B30.1).

9.54

DUG-IN AFV: A Dug-In AFV is treated as an Armored Cupola except as stated otherwise. A Dug-In AFV is HD to all Direct Fire attacks [EXC: vs Aerial AF], has a +1 Target Size [EXC: if the AFV actually has a +2 Target Size], and does not create a Hindrance. A Dug-In AFV has a vehicular (not Infantry) crew (and therefore, unlike other Armored Cupolas, cannot place a Fire Lane), can be CE, does have a CS#, and will leave a scroungeable (or burning) wreck which does not leave a wreck Hindrance (9.4). Place a Vehicle Crest counter (from WEST OF ALAMEIN) on the AFV to show its Dug-In status.

 

[rixster1]

Chapter O: c) Dug-In: A Russian AFV Platoon may be purchased at 50% (FRU) of the normal CPP cost if set up on-map as Dug-In (use D9.5-.53; see also O.7). A Dug-In AFV may set up using HIP in Concealment Terrain (including Rubble) as per normal rules (A12.34), but firing any Weapon or changing TCA is considered a Concealment-loss activity (A12.141). Such HIP must be purchased separately (RePh step 11.621). A Dug-In AFV's BMG (if any) is Disabled. (Such a BMG is automatically Scrounged successfully by the Russian. A number of Russian LMG, equal to the number of AFV received for the Dug-In AFV Pltn, are added to the Russian OB.) Such a Dug-In AFV may never become Mobile. Furthermore, any Retained Russian AFV may be freely Dug-In at the Russian player's option.

Then I went to Concealment Terrain A12.34:
12.34 HIDDEN GUNS: An Emplaced (C11.2) non-vehicular Gun and its manning crew/HS [EXC: if possessing a non-inherent SW] may always use HIP if it sets up (i.e., starts the scenario) in Concealment Terrain, even if in the LOS of an enemy unit. An Emplaced Gun may also always use HIP if not in Concealment Terrain, provided it sets up out of the LOS of all enemy ground units - but must be placed onboard under a "?" as soon as a Good Order enemy ground unit has a LOS to it regardless of range, e.g., at the start of the first RPh. An Emplaced hidden/ concealed Gun that fires is revealed if the colored dr of its Original TH DR is ≥ 5 and the nearest Good Order enemy ground Unit with a LOS to it is within 16 hexes, or if that dr is a 6 and the nearest such unit with a LOS to it is at ≥ 17 hexes; otherwise that Gun is placed (or remains) beneath a "?" [EXC: if it is considered not to have fired (C8.9); it retains HIP if no Good Order enemy ground unit has a LOS to it when it fires at other than a FB/DB (E7.); a RCL (C12.22), or a Gun firing at-zero-range/ using-lFE, is always revealed if it fires while in the LOS of any Good Order enemy ground unit]. See 12.2 for the HIP/ "?" loss-gain relationship between a Gun and its manning Infantry.

Looks like they can and it is HIP.