Broken in CC

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Our current Red Factories game has a situation we are not sure on what happens. Russian has 3 German MMC and a leader locked in Melee; two DC's were successfully placed in the hex during the Russian MPh. The detonation of the DC's resulted in all German squads in the hex being broken including the Russian squad, only the 7-0 German leader passed the MC's but ended up pinned. Per rule B11.16 broken units cannot rout while in Melee and must attempt to withdraw in the CC phase. This all makes sense. The Russian advanced a squad into the Melee hex during the advance phase. Now in the CC phase we are unsure what happens.

  1. Are the units still in Melee when all are broken?
  2. Do the broken units still attempt to withdraw?
  3. What affect does the Good order Russian squad have on everything?
  4. Are there other options we are not considering.
16113
Here is a picture of the hex.
Thanks Ken
 

Eagle4ty

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Our current Red Factories game has a situation we are not sure on what happens. Russian has 3 German MMC and a leader locked in Melee; two DC's were successfully placed in the hex during the Russian MPh. The detonation of the DC's resulted in all German squads in the hex being broken including the Russian squad, only the 7-0 German leader passed the MC's but ended up pinned. Per rule B11.16 broken units cannot rout while in Melee and must attempt to withdraw in the CC phase. This all makes sense. The Russian advanced a squad into the Melee hex during the advance phase. Now in the CC phase we are unsure what happens.

  1. Are the units still in Melee when all are broken?
  2. Do the broken units still attempt to withdraw?
  3. What affect does the Good order Russian squad have on everything?
  4. Are there other options we are not considering.
View attachment 16113
Here is a picture of the hex.
Thanks Ken
Answers to above:
  1. Yes, per A11.15.
  2. Yes, per A11.15-.16 & 11.2-.21.
  3. The 458 is now a Melee unit and may attack in any number of ways.
a). attack all German units in a combined attack applying effects DRMs as appropriate to each defending unit.
b). attack the Pinned Leader only at 4:1 and let the broken unit withdraw without being attacked.
c). Attack the withdrawing broken unit only, as the Pinned leader can by his current status defend alone, applying the DRMs as appropriate for the effects and leave the Pinned Leader still in Melee with the 458 should its attack not eliminate the 458.
4. I have absolutely no idea, but the Pinned ldr could self break during the RtPh withdraw during the CCPh.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I do not believe the leader could break and rout as it looks like he was stuck in melee.
Agree, A11.15:
"Units locked in Melee may not Interdict routing units nor conduct any activity other than CC or Withdrawal from Melee."
 

Eagle4ty

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I do not believe the leader could break and rout as it looks like he was stuck in melee.
During the preceding RtPh he could have self-broken and attempted to withdraw with the broken MMC as his breaking wouldn't have necessarily meant his immediate elimination (correct, he couldn't have routed during the RtPh). However the 458 could have chosen to attack both the broken MMC & the now broken Ldr as a combined attack as they withdrew & now without the DRM for a covering unit.
 

Eagle4ty

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Agree, A11.15:
"Units locked in Melee may not Interdict routing units nor conduct any activity other than CC or Withdrawal from Melee."
I guess that comes down to an interpretation of conducting an activity, I do not believe self breaking meets that criteria.
 

Eagle4ty

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You aren't doing anything...just breaking...and when you break you aren't getting much done anyway.
ALthough if you are in Melee, there would be no point in Breaking, just withdrawal normally and save the -2DRM against you.
Mind you the Leader can COVER the units withdrawing from Melee to reduce the mod by 1.
Not saying that was a better option, just an option I believe was available at least at the beginning of the RtPh.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I guess that comes down to an interpretation of conducting an activity, I do not believe self breaking meets that criteria.
Have you looked for any possible existing Q&A.

Since it's a choice made the player/unit, it seems like an action to me, ymmv.
 
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Sparafucil3

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I guess that comes down to an interpretation of conducting an activity, I do not believe self breaking meets that criteria.
No need for interpretation. From the ASOP:
ASLRB said:
As listed in the Advanced Sequence of Play (ASOP), each phase is usually broken down into three main parts: the START, DURING, END and several discrete Steps. In each Step Number (e.g., “1.11A”), the player(s) involved is specified as A (ATTACKER), D (DEFENDER), or B (Both). The ASOP lists the official order of actions, even for those whose order is not given elsewhere (e.g. as per Steps 3.21A-3.22A, units that start the MPh berserk must move before non-berserk units); however, inconsequential violations of sequence should be tolerated in the spirit of good sportsmanship.

Should the order of actions given in the body of the rules conflict with the ASOP, the latter takes precedence. All activities in the same Step may be conducted in any order unless stated otherwise; if actions conflict, the ATTACKER goes first. Certain mutually exclusive actions may be listed in the same Step despite the fact that they cannot be conducted by the same unit—and many restrictions normally applicable to the listed actions are left unmentioned; in both cases, the normal rules pertaining to such actions still apply.
Self break is an action defined on the ASOP (Step 6.11B). Per A11.15, "Units locked in Melee may not Interdict routing units nor conduct any activity other than CC or Withdrawal from Melee." Voluntary break is an activity (another word used in the ASOP interchangeably with action), a unit marked with a melee counter is prohibited from conducting this step so NA. -- jim
 

Eagle4ty

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No need for interpretation. From the ASOP:

Self break is an action defined on the ASOP (Step 6.11B). Per A11.15, "Units locked in Melee may not Interdict routing units nor conduct any activity other than CC or Withdrawal from Melee." Voluntary break is an activity (another word used in the ASOP interchangeably with action), a unit marked with a melee counter is prohibited from conducting this step so NA. -- jim
So if breaking is an action, are units in Melee immune to breaking in the first place?
 

Stewart

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10.41 VOLUNTARY BREAK: Units within both the LOS and Normal Range per 10.532 of an armed, unbroken Known enemy ground—and/or ADJACENT to any unbroken enemy ground unit—may voluntarily break (even if pinned) at the start of the RtPh so as to be able to rout during that RtPh (but only if breaking will not cause their immediate Reduction or elimination).

Since you are breaking yet, NOT ABLE to Rout, I'd have to go with no VOL BREAK allowed.
 
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