Abandoned vehicles and movement

aneil1234

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I feel I should know an answer to this ?
But even more important I feel I should no where in the rulebook I should be looking something up to answer this question.

So there are some abandoned half tracks on the road. In this case they are US, but it really doesn't matter who they belong to !

So an enemy unit wants to move down the length of the road. Is there anything that prevents or more importantly allows this sort of movement.
A 4.14 says that you can't move into the same location containing an unconcealed enemy unit during the movement phase. Listing a whole bunch of exceptions, the key is that an abandoned vehicle is not one of the exceptions ?

It does sort of seem odd in my head that are vehicle parked on the side of the road stops a whole bunch of other people just walking past it !
I know that somewhere out there I'm missing something ? And I'm just being dense so any help would be appreciated
thanks guys (and girls)
 

aloha_brian

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I would say that the halftracks are not "Units", therefore they are not "Enemy Units".

Abandoned halftracks have not capable of movement.

Unit: Any game piece or Counter with its own MF/MP allotment and normally capable of movement without being portaged, pushed, or towed. Infantry, Cavalry [but not Horses], Dummy stacks, and vehicles (even IF Immobilized) are all different types of units.
 

Vinnie

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Abandoned vehicles are unarmed so even if they are units, they do not prevent entry.

Unarmed (Any unit without inherent FP usable on the IFT unless mounting or possessing a functioning Gun/SW or inherent crew; a leader is armed [unless a prisoner/swimmer:
A20.551] but has no Normal Range; Abandoned AFVs are unarmed): A20.5 [Automatic Action: S6.302] [Heat of Battle NA: A15.1] [Inherent Driver: D5.1] [Japanese: G1.15] [Swimmers: E6.4]
 

aneil1234

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Vinnie, and Brian

I do completely agree with you that they are unarmed
and never had a problem with that
being unarmed doesn't stop them being unit (and thus a 4.14 would apply)

what I don't see is where it says that an unarmed unit allows entry into their hex.
A 4.14 says may not move into a location containing an unconcealed enemy unit, unit is defined as a game piece with a movement factor/movement point allotment. As Brian said above it is more likely that it is not a unit because of not being able to move but it does actually have a printed movement factor movement point allowance what the rule doesn't say is if this <temporary/transient> status because it is abandoned - somewhere I think it should ?????!!!!


I'm just not sure that it does. And I don't want to spend 500 hours trawling through Errata and Q&A to try and find an answer (do personally hate that!)

I still don't see where it says that you can walk through a hex with an "unarmed unit".

As I've said before I'm sure I'm missing something but what or where ?

I do say this thanks very much for the replies. Much appreciated


An edit to my last
there is a Perry says answer which indicates that a good order unit may move through the hex with an <unarmed truck>......................... his answer is if it's the only thing there !

I actually think that this is right and it should say somewhere that you can move through the hex with an abandoned vehicle
I just don't know where that is ?
 

WuWei

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Is an abandoned vehicle an enemy unit? I would argue it isn't. Unfortunately, there's no index definition of "enemy".
 

Justiciar

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Note D5.4 says..."to indicate the vehicle that the vehicle may not move or fire..." So even if it has printed MP, it is no longer a unit as it cannot move normally.
 

aneil1234

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Fun isn't it
lol

I have just sent a Q& A

See if I get a response


And just to be clear I think the answer should be, sure why not >?
But I cannot find anywhere in the rules that it says you can (may be is the bit where it says that a unit is something that can move with its own movement points on it but it doesn't actually say that explicitly- )
I'm more than happy to go with what everybody is saying
I just want to know for my own logic sake WHERE it's saying it !!!!!!
 
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Justiciar

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Is an abandoned vehicle an enemy unit? I would argue it isn't. Unfortunately, there's no index definition of "enemy".
Indirectly there is the vehicle is still an "enemy" thing. D5.4 "...and is subject to capture." You only capture things that are not yours...hence enemy.
 

Justiciar

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Your answer is as Vinnie has it in 3. A4.14 says "unarmed" units do not prevent entry...the definition of unarmed states "Abandoned AFV are unarmed."
 

aneil1234

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Thats it UNARMED !!!!!
Boy I missed that one didn't I
and it's there in the B&W that I need to close my broken logic loop lol lots

Thanks every single one of you
 

jrv

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I feel I should know an answer to this ?
But even more important I feel I should no where in the rulebook I should be looking something up to answer this question.

So there are some abandoned half tracks on the road. In this case they are US, but it really doesn't matter who they belong to !

So an enemy unit wants to move down the length of the road. Is there anything that prevents or more importantly allows this sort of movement.
A 4.14 says that you can't move into the same location containing an unconcealed enemy unit during the movement phase. Listing a whole bunch of exceptions, the key is that an abandoned vehicle is not one of the exceptions ?

It does sort of seem odd in my head that are vehicle parked on the side of the road stops a whole bunch of other people just walking past it !
I know that somewhere out there I'm missing something ? And I'm just being dense so any help would be appreciated
thanks guys (and girls)
There is a q&a that I think answers this:

A7.4 & D5.4 Is an abandoned vehicle still a unit? If it is a unit, is a previously friendly vehicle which was abandoned still a friendly unit, thus preventing another friendly unit to fire on it? If it is not a unit, may an abandoned vehicle be fired upon?
A. An Abandoned vehicle is a unit, but it is neither friendly nor enemy and can be attacked by either side.
Since it is not considered "enemy" A4.14 does not apply. In this abandoned vehicles resemble horses [A13.7]

I think the q&a leaves them as units (even though not friendly or enemy) because otherwise other rules that reference "units" would also have to be modified to include abandoned vehicles. But I have not studied the rules to see if this is true; it is only my guess.

JR
 

jrv

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Indirectly there is the vehicle is still an "enemy" thing. D5.4 "...and is subject to capture." You only capture things that are not yours...hence enemy.
Per A21.2 abandoned vehicles are explicitly subject to capture. The rules applies to an "Abandoned enemy AFV" and does not use the term "unit", so apparently the abandoned vehicle is an "enemy AFV" but not an "enemy unit" (per q&a in my previous post).

I will claim this whole thing is cobbled together using rules that ought to conflict somewhere but just barely don't (or perhaps do in a way that I don't see). JMHO.

JR
 

Tuomo

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JR on ASL:
I will claim this whole thing is cobbled together using rules that ought to conflict somewhere but just barely don't (or perhaps do in a way that I don't see).
 

Tuomo

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it is remarkable how much doesn't work; it is remarkable how much works.
Throw in rules you don't know, rules you remember from plain-old Squad Leader, rules you learned wrong in the first place, and rules you oh-so-desperately want to be true in the heat of the moment, and it's a wonder we get anything right.
 
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