A.2 ERRORS

[Frank44]

Could you please explain the meaning of point of commission in A.2 rule below?

A.2 ERRORS: All results stand once play has progressed past the point of commission. In other words, if an error is discovered after play has passed that point, the game cannot be backed up to correct the error, even if such error is in violation of a rule.

My understanding is that once a new dice roll has been done, the results for any past rolls are final and cannot be changed or rerolled.
Is this right?

Please answer with pure point of rules and no opinions or feelings.

Thanks

 

[Robin Reeve]

A.2 is clear.
It admits the probability of errors when playing the game.
After, you will adapt the severity of your application of that rule after the warmness of your relationship with your opponent. And after common sense.

 

[ibncalb]

A.2 is clear.
It admits the probability of errors when playing the game.
After, you will adapt the severity of your application of that rule after the warmness of your relationship with your opponent. And after common sense.

OP, here you have a Swiss guy explaining A.2. You can't get better than that

 

[Frank44]

So my understanding is right.

 

[zgrose]

You are correct. Not everyone plays that way though.

 

[Michael R]

Although you said “no opinions” I am giving mine. If I catch an error within a few events of its occurrence, I will try to make it right.

 

[Actionjick]

A.2 is situational dependent and can be applied with some flexibility. I would add that speed of play should be considered also. We tended to play fast and had no problem with correcting oversights after the fact. The amount of refreshments consumed should also be given consideration.

 

[Larry]

A.2 is reciprocal.

 

[apbills]

Could you please explain the meaning of point of commission in A.2 rule below?

"point of commission" simply means "the time the error was committed". It can be any of the multitude of errors that may occur. As others have stated, the level of rigidity or laxness (depending on your point of view) in enforcing this rule depends on the players and situation. I suspect (with no data to back it up) that a tournament setting is more rigid than a game between long time opponents playing their weekly match.

 

[bendizoid]

Like Fort so eloquently stated “I don’t want to win by ‘Gotcha!’ “

Maybe suck it up and use it as a learning experience, there is a lot to remember.

 

[Stewart]

Could you please explain the meaning of point of commission in A.2 rule below?

A.2 ERRORS: All results stand once play has progressed past the point of commission. In other words, if an error is discovered after play has passed that point, the game cannot be backed up to correct the error, even if such error is in violation of a rule.
My understanding is that once a new dice roll has been done, the results for any past rolls are final and cannot be changed or rerolled.
Is this right?
Please answer with pure point of rules and no opinions or feelings.

You are correct, doesn't mean players follow the rules, imagine that.

Some players are more strict (correct), others will get totally BUTT hurt and sometimes quit the game because of something that happened 5 phases ago that they want to correct.
I would caution against going past almost ANY point that other decisions were made based upon that incident....THAT'S the reason of the Rule....no going back...too much has happened by then...
i.e. TOO BAD.

However, some like to take advantage of this. It's called lack of sportsmanship and immoral playing style.
They won't call out YOUR misses but will want to Get into their DeLorean and start again if it's affecting them

 

[Eagle4ty]

The one error I've seen/played the most often is missing a SAN possibility. Once a shot has generated a SAN possibility one must resolve the effects 1st. Sometimes this incurs a HOB result, another SAN generation, or something similar and the SAN possibility is forgotten in the heat of the moment. The one I personally refuse to allow is forgetting to attempt SMOKE placement prior to any other shots (but I may fudge a bit on direct fire 1st-situationally dependent). One has to remember this is a two-player game (mostly) and it's the responsibility of both players to try and attain a game played by the rules realizing no-one is flawless.

 

[Larry]

You are correct, doesn't mean players follow the rules, imagine that.

Some players are more strict (correct), others will get totally BUTT hurt and sometimes quit the game because of something that happened 5 phases ago that they want to correct.
I would caution against going past almost ANY point that other decisions were made based upon that incident....THAT'S the reason of the Rule....no going back...too much has happened by then...
i.e. TOO BAD.

However, some like to take advantage of this. It's called lack of sportsmanship and immoral playing style.
They won't call out YOUR misses but will want to Get into their DeLorean and start again if it's affecting them

A14.1 Is it the responsibility of both players to
watch for and announce SAN DRs made by either
player?
A. Yes, despite the impossibility of enforcement.
[Compil9]

Not announcing your SAN is not a strict playing of the game, despite the possibility of enforcement. This old Q&A is still viable. Or you can ask Perry if it is OK to not announce your rolling of the SAN.

 

[zgrose]

Adding to the above and my own post, it is good that there is a clear rule. But much like touch rule in chess, there is a time and a place. If I was playing for prize money, I would probably invoke A.2 on my opponent and bemoan my own lack of attention when it fell upon me. But for most play, I’d err on correcting mistakes.

 

[Actionjick]

Like Fort so eloquently stated “I don’t want to win by ‘Gotcha!’ “

Maybe suck it up and use it as a learning experience, there is a lot to remember.

Nicely put.

 

[Kijug]

Another often thing is a player may forget to attemp to rally a unit due to counter density, etc. At the start of the MPh the player may ask if he can rally that unit because he forgot to. Move players, if the rally didn’t otherwise have a game effect, will allow that player to do a rally attempt. That’s been my experience. Friendly games…but technically the rally attempt is not allowed per A.2.

 

[L Bunny Niyori]

The rules ARE the rules, which is why they are in print.
I can assure you, that in a chess game, they won't cut you any slack.
The rules ARE the rules. This isn't a role game where the manual is just a lot of guidelines.

It should be mentioned of course, that what goes around comes around. And I likely wouldn't ask a person for a next time if their social skills sucked so badly that they made an issue out of it.
The ASL manual looks like a lawyer's wet dream due to how exacting we like to be. And Squad Leader is perhaps the pinnacle of the term rules lawyer.

The person that can't manage to employ A.2 Errors without getting nasty, is not worth playing.

 

[Robin Reeve]

ASL is not chess.
And cutting slack is fine in a friendly game.
A.2 is a way to ease play if errors are made - chess would never allow that btw - much more than to punish players if they miss something.
It is more about metagaming than actual game mechanics.

 

[zgrose]

Slightly different perspective…
A.2 is a way to adjudicate a situation where players may disagree on what course of action to take.
Chess has the same rules and players can ignore them in the same way (EX the touch rule).

 

[Eagle4ty]

There is also a limited number of possible moves in a chess game, somewhere around 15,000 possibilities but an average game will probably consist of only around 40. In a game of SL/ASL it would be very difficult if not impossible to determine the number of possible moves because of the vagaries of terrain and the variety of outcomes of each move. Of course, the very simple rules of chess are quite easy to come to understand once they are agreed upon because of the structured and limited outcomes that may occur because of those moves, not to mention the limits imposed by the playing area. As I have stated earlier, I believe most players of ASL strive to play a rules attentive game, but as zgrose has intimated above A.2 is there when mistakes occur. However, I do agree with L Bunny Niyori that once a breach of the rules has been committed and duly noted, no player should really grouse about their opponent holding their feet to the fire over it. Just be cognoscente that what goes around, comes around.