Huertgen Forest

Hutch

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You’ve probably already read it but “The Battle of the Huertgen Forest” by Charles MacDonald has some good scenario ideas.
 

Evan Sherry

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Wondering if there's interest in a Huertgen Forest thing?

Imagining 1-2 geoboards, maybe some Overlays. Were there enough actions to justify something here??

View attachment 28517
Don,

There is plenty of material that can be used for such boards and overlays. I say this having just written the scenario analysis for SP282 Then Came the Inferno, a scenario for the upcoming Schwerpunkt Volume 24. This scenario is part of the Battle for the Huertgen Forest.

Though the theme for the boards you propose would naturally be hilly and covered with woods, it is most important to not make the mistake made with board 39 which makes it nearly impossible to use in most scenario concepts. I find it nearly impossible to make an interesting scenario that ASLers will enjoy playing on board 39.

Geomorphic boards should be designed with what I call a 70% solution. What I mean by this is that the board designer's concept should be expressed with full consideration for his specific theme/inspiration, But, at the same time, such a board concept, ideally, should offer versatility to potential scenario designers for use in similar topographical, yet different geographical settings. When I consulted several years ago with Gary Fortenberry on one of his doublewide boards, I expressed the need to include terrain that lends itself to the accomplishment of various military objectives that the scenario designer then translates into the formulation of victory conditions.

As a former US Army officer who happens to have designed a few scenarios over the years, I evaluate at a given geomorphic board by asking the question: "Why would a unit be fighting on this board." All designers know the importance of transition boards and boards that permit a logical movement to contact. These boards are usually not the boards where key terrain-based victory conditions are accomplished unless they are part of an exit or retrograde type operation. The ASL system, at its core, features mostly (we know there are all kinds of other ASL missions) attack and defense type military missions for the two forces on the scenario cards, therefore the best "objective" board will display obvious reason(s) for fighting there.

As for overlays, yes give me more overlays. Designers always need more and innovative overlays to spice up the board configuration. I was a little disappointed (though I do plan to use the plethora of railroad overlays to plan my new Lionel train layout) at the large number of very specific kinds of overlays printed in Twighlight of the Reich. They are obviously very well-suited to that particular module, but I will use very few of them outside of it. I was also extremely disappointed that MMP completely squandered a golden opportunity to offer additional new desert overlays in the Hollow Legions reprint that would have been a boon for desert scenario designers. LFT seems to a be on the right track in this area with their new arid climate boards.

For years I have wanted overlays on transparent media that would for example allow me to place a patch of woods or a building on a hill hex that would still allow the player to see the contour lines of the hill hex.

So, yes give me more boards and overlays.
 
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Brad M-V

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I've played on each of the forest boards a few times already, and truth be told I never want to see them again. IMO most boards have far too many roads depicted on them as well. Is it so Ivan can save himself a couple of minutes with his wagon twenty times a year? A cut-off here and a cut-off there, everywhere a cut-off! This spaghetti road network has cheapened their valve to me finally, because they all look the same now, unfortunately.
 

Brad M-V

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What would interest me is a collection of boards with only one road going from edge to edge (lengthways) with no side roads, just one long and winding roadway leading towards victory, one unique section at a time.
 

Hutch

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Sort of like Board 52?
Only 1 hex side roads for continuity.
 

PresterJohn

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I looked at board 39 and said this is a great board, I know that country and I've been on hills like that. If somebody had said "Why are we here on this hill?", it would soon become obvious because except for a narrow strip of beach the whole bloody island looked like board 39.
 

ibncalb

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It's be very interested in some forest action. It's a shame rhe woods boards we have are so boring.

By combining woods, light Woods, pine forest, forest rules and in and out of season orchards I think a more interesting sylvan battlefield could be made.
 

Neal

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CH and BFP (and others) have a bunch of historical scenarios around it.

I'm generally not a shill for CH, but I like map porn and their combined Hüertgen Hell-Objective Schmidt map is kind of crazy. I've not played any scenarios from either module tho.


 

olli

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CH and BFP (and others) have a bunch of historical scenarios around it.

I'm generally not a shill for CH, but I like map porn and their combined Hüertgen Hell-Objective Schmidt map is kind of crazy. I've not played any scenarios from either module tho.


LOS on this map is a nightmare
 

DonWPetros

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Don,

There is plenty of material that can be used for such boards and overlays. I say this having just written the scenario analysis for SP282 Then Came the Inferno, a scenario for the upcoming Schwerpunkt Volume 24. This scenario is part of the Battle for the Huertgen Forest.

Though the theme for the boards you propose would naturally be hilly and covered with woods, it is most important to not make the mistake made with board 39 which makes it nearly impossible to use in most scenario concepts. I find it nearly impossible to make an interesting scenario that ASLers will enjoy playing on board 39.

Geomorphic boards should be designed with what I call a 70% solution. What I mean by this is that the board designer's concept should be expressed with full consideration for his specific theme/inspiration, But, at the same time, such a board concept, ideally, should offer versatility to potential scenario designers for use in similar topographical, yet different geographical settings. When I consulted several years ago with Gary Fortenberry on one of his doublewide boards, I expressed the need to include terrain that lends itself to the accomplishment of various military objectives that the scenario designer then translates into the formulation of victory conditions.

As a former US Army officer who happens to have designed a few scenarios over the years, I evaluate at a given geomorphic board by asking the question: "Why would a unit be fighting on this board." All designers know the importance of transition boards and boards that permit a logical movement to contact. These boards are usually not the boards where key terrain-based victory conditions are accomplished unless they are part of an exit or retrograde type operation. The ASL system, at its core, features mostly (we know there are all kinds of other ASL missions) attack and defense type military missions for the two forces on the scenario cards, therefore the best "objective" board will display obvious reason(s) for fighting there.

As for overlays, yes give me more overlays. Designers always need more and innovative overlays to spice up the board configuration. I was a little disappointed (though I do plan to use the plethora of railroad overlays to plan my new Lionel train layout) at the large number of very specific kinds of overlays printed in Twighlight of the Reich. They are obviously very well-suited to that particular module, but I will use very few of them outside of it. I was also extremely disappointed that MMP completely squandered a golden opportunity to offer additional new desert overlays in the Hollow Legions reprint that would have been a boon for desert scenario designers. LFT seems to a be on the right track in this area with their new arid climate boards.

For years I have wanted overlays on transparent media that would for example allow me to place a patch of woods or a building on a hill hex that would still allow the player to see the contour lines of the hill hex.

So, yes give me more boards and overlays.
Evan, thanks. I'd like to respond in detail asap. Cannot right now. Good commentary.

For now - yes, there are a lot of miscellaneous Huertgen actions that could lend themselves. Yes, the geoboards and OLs should be both specific and also allow for versatility. Both 'objective' (hill, village, etc.) terrain is always wanted, but so too is 'approach' (open) terrain necessary. Versatility is the key with OLs - agreed. (OLs, especially 1/2 board type like in CoB, are underestimated. I've recently prepared 4 x 1/2 sheets of OLs designed to use with a very open Ukrainian board. They're designed for versatility, and useful with all the existing other boards too).

One idea for representing the Huertgen wooded terrain - use existing Orchard terrain and SSR it: 'All Orchards are Woods' - which would cause the little green blotches to become LOS Obstacles, allow LOS down certain pathways (cultivated woods effect), and importantly allow designers to use existing boards (ie. #73) to represent these woods. Prepare several 'Orchard / Woods' OLs, and you'd probably have some good representation of the Huertgen.

Don
 

Blaze

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Bob Miller

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An ASL journal or annual had a small map called Nhpum Ga for some PTO battle. A designer (no idea who) used that map to use for a Hurtgen forest scenario. I recall playing that scenario a few times 15-20 years ago. I thought it was a blast.
 

Hutch

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Uses Nhpum Ga Map

Curtain Kall
The Kall Gorge, Hürtgen Forest, Germany
06 November 1944
Melee Pack I MP2
Scott Faulk
 
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Vic Provost

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You mean like BFP’s Objective: Schmidt?
I have Operation Schmidt, heck of a job, nice maps, need to play it as some point via VASL, reasonable size and it is a good looking HASL for my $.

I hope Don gets hooked up with someone for an official Hurtgen HASL, I know the maps will be awesome.
 

DonWPetros

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I have Operation Schmidt, heck of a job, nice maps, need to play it as some point via VASL, reasonable size and it is a good looking HASL for my $.
I hope Don gets hooked up with someone for an official Hurtgen HASL, I know the maps will be awesome.
Thanks for the plug, Vic. But what I'm more interested in is to do some geoboards/OLs with a Huertgen theme which would allow designers (such as yourself) to prepare a variety of Huertgen related scenarios.
I think a starting place could be to piggyback on existing boards (ie. 73), as well as future other boards or overlays, to prepare something like an AP for MMP - Huertgen Forest themed.

So, my little memo here is mainly to enlist support - to get scenario designers cranked up to do some research and development!
 

DonWPetros

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The Huertgen terrain is unique I think, based on what I've read. 'Managed forest' - with often much space in between Woods. Lots of irregularity. Dense, but not exactly like our boards 5 and 52 where there's no LOS at all between obstacles. Unique terrain - combined with standard geoboards.
 

chris_olden

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The Huertgen terrain is unique I think, based on what I've read. 'Managed forest' - with often much space in between Woods. Lots of irregularity. Dense, but not exactly like our boards 5 and 52 where there's no LOS at all between obstacles. Unique terrain - combined with standard geoboards.
In most of the famous/well known photos from the battle, the “managed forest” is well represented.
I was reminded of those pictures, a few years back, when driving south from Bend, Oregon, on Highway 97.
 
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