Volksgrenadeirs in Twilight of the Reich

[21Z5M]

The counters/rules are pretty much the same as in SME.

So there was nothing done with regards to the rifle squads in the Volksgrenadiers? No design for them such as 4-4-7?

 

[Perry]

So there was nothing done with regards to the rifle squads in the Volksgrenadiers? No design for them such as 4-4-7?

What do you want done?

 

[21Z5M]

Hi Perry

A volksgrenadier battalion has three line companies. The companies are made up of three platoons. The first and second platoons are armed with two squads of stg and one rifle squad. The third platoon are all rifle squads.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

So there was nothing done with regards to the rifle squads in the Volksgrenadiers? No design for them such as 4-4-7?

4-4-7 squads already exist, so I don't understand the question actually.

Am I missing anything?

 

[Bill Cirillo]

4-4-7 squads already exist, so I don't understand the question actually.

Am I missing anything?

Klas,

I was going to ask the same question.

Or, is the question, when a Volksgrenadier unit was represented in a TotR scenario, are there also 4-4-7 2nd line MMCs present? If that is the question, then yes, that is the case.

 

[21Z5M]

Klas,

I was going to ask the same question.

Or, is the question, when a Volksgrenadier unit was represented in a TotR scenario, are there also 4-4-7 2nd line MMCs present? If that is the question, then yes, that is the case. View attachment 27749

Hi,

That was my question because both counters working together would represent the VG. It’s a whole new class of German Soldier in that it was the last toss of the dice for Germany. Sorry for my confusion because if the rules in SME represent the rules covering the VG then it was missing half of the components.

Thanks

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Sorry for my confusion because if the rules in SME represent the rules covering the VG then it was missing half of the components.

The rules - same as SME - covers/represents how the VG 5-3-7 MMC "work". So in that regard it is not missing anything.

Whether to use these new MMC together with 4-4-7/something-else to represent VG units would be up to the designer....

 

[21Z5M]

The rules - same as SME - covers/represents how the VG 5-3-7 MMC "work". So in that regard it is not missing anything.

Whether to use these new MMC together with 4-4-7/something-else to represent VG units would be up to the designer....

I was going along a historical vein. A company action would not have all 5-3-7 counters.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I was going along a historical vein. A company action would not have all 5-3-7 counters.

Yes, I got that....but how the designers choose to use the new squads can't really be written into the rules....

 

[Bill Cirillo]

Hi,

That was my question because both counters working together would represent the VG. It’s a whole new class of German Soldier in that it was the last toss of the dice for Germany. Sorry for my confusion because if the rules in SME represent the rules covering the VG then it was missing half of the components.

Thanks

Okay, great. I just wanted to make sure that I understood your question correctly. As an FYI, the ASL Chapter A rules addition for Volksgrenadiers do only mention the addition of the 5-3-7 squad type. I feel that it is more appropriate for the scenario designer to formulate the actual Volksgrenadier "unit" through a blend of the appropriate squad types for a given historical situation, much like Sean and I have done for all of the other scenarios that we have developed.

Thanks for the question!

Bill

 

[21Z5M]

Yes, I got that....but how the designers choose to use the new squads can't really be written into the rules....

I understand your point of view on not restricting a designer. I’m thinking after 7/20/44 they were purposely built to reflect National Socialism and what was left of the war effort. The final takeover of the Heer due to who was directing the restructuring of the VG. To me the VG are a separate class. The Army, SS and VG after September 44. Thanks for listening.

 

[Sgt Rock]

I’m thinking after 7/20/44 they were purposely built to reflect National Socialism and what was left of the war effort. The final takeover of the Heer due to who was directing the restructuring of the VG. To me the VG are a separate class. The Army, SS and VG after September 44. Thanks for listening.

You may be confusing the Volksgrenadiers with the Volkssturm. It was the Volkssturm that was raised and lead by the party and its leaders, the battalions filled with children and old men. The Volksgrenadiers, on the other hand, were made up of a core of veterans filled with replacements, along with Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe personnel. They had high morale and motivation, were well armed and well lead, and gave the Allies a drubbing during the Ardennes.

 

[21Z5M]

You may be confusing the Volksgrenadiers with the Volkssturm. It was the Volkssturm that was raised and lead by the party and its leaders, the battalions filled with children and old men. The Volksgrenadiers, on the other hand, were made up of a core of veterans filled with replacements, along with Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe personnel. They had high morale and motivation, were well armed and well lead, and gave the Allies a drubbing during the Ardennes.

Himmler was placed in charge of the Volksgrenadiers and over saw the re-building of worn out units. They added Volk as an honorary title. I agree with you on the make up of the material used to flesh out the skeleton of seasoned cadre. As far as motivation went I would say that varied based on the unit. I thought the VG would have been seen in ASL as a first line unit and then had the ELR adjusted based on what action/division because my understanding was that they were well supplied but under trained on infantry tasks.

 

[Hutch]

From the Volksstrum Wiki:

The new Volkssturm was also to become a nationwide organization, with Heinrich Himmler as Replacement Army commander, responsible for armament and training.

 

[von Marwitz]

The Volksgrenadiers, on the other hand, were made up of a core of veterans filled with replacements, along with Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe personnel. They had high morale and motivation, were well armed and well lead, and gave the Allies a drubbing during the Ardennes.

With regard to Volksgrenadier Divisions one can say that they were heterogeneous:
Some were better than others. Both regarding equipment, manpower, training, and quality. This is true even for the subunits of those Divisions. Late in the war, there was often a hodgepotch of units, Kampfgruppen, everchanging temporary attachments, etc. To make generalizations about morale, motivation, armament, leadership etc. would be misleading.

von Marwitz

 

[Sparafucil3]

To make generalizations about morale, motivation, armament, leadership etc. would be misleading.

Isn't that exactly what counters do? -- jim

 

[21Z5M]

Isn't that exactly what counters do? -- jim

I thought the ELR was an adjustment on how the counters reacted to events during the game.

 

[21Z5M]

With regard to Volksgrenadier Divisions one can say that they were heterogeneous:
Some were better than others. Both regarding equipment, manpower, training, and quality. This is true even for the subunits of those Divisions. Late in the war, there was often a hodgepotch of units, Kampfgruppen, everchanging temporary attachments, etc. To make generalizations about morale, motivation, armament, leadership etc. would be misleading.

von Marwitz

I agree to a point but the September through December wave of VGDs were generally equipped the same. The 277 VGD is the division I know the most about.

 

[von Marwitz]

Isn't that exactly what counters do? -- jim

I count it that you're right. Luckily, we've got thousands of 'em for the game...

von Marwitz

 

[Sparafucil3]

I thought the ELR was an adjustment on how the counters reacted to events during the game.

Even the ELR process assumes generalizations WRT morale, motivation, armament, leadership etc. -- jim