Twilight of the Reich Update

[PabloGS]

It appears to me that Twilight of the Reich does not fit neatly into the broad product lines MMP has traditionally put out, so it can be called anyway they want. The most similar MMP product is, I think, Swedish Volunteers. Why? Because it is made of thematically joined scenarios, no HASL map, and new counters and rules. Other publishers seem to have put out products more akin to Twilight of the Reich, such as the big PTO or Kursk packs some have produced. Or the old Time on Target packs.

 

[Neal]

I'd call TotR something like a "themed module". It's a bit of a core module because it adds new units, but isn't HASL because it doesn't contain a historically accurate map and/or CG. It's the red-headed stepchild of the ASL product line.

 

[nebel]

It's the red-headed stepchild of the ASL product line.

or it could become the new normal…

 

[Robin Reeve]

It mostly is late-war Germany, so a good complement to BV.
Now, I rather see it as a core module which integrates into the "common" rulebook many units and terrains that only existed in HASLs.
Thus the dispersion impression.
But it is "core" as it adds to the common units, terrains and rules.
It will spare SSR surface.

 

[PresterJohn]

I would imagine that you would produce a similar module to represent Seelöwe, for example. Some new double-sided boards to represent hitherto-fore un-played-on terrain. Certainly a couple of counter-sheets of new unit and weapon type. Special bayonet counters too (Who do you think you are kidding Mister Hitler?). These would all need rules updates. Plus about twenty scenarios including "The Battle of Timothy Whites" and "Seizing the Jolly Roger". Not that I am advocating the product (of course I would buy it) but merely saying out loud a whimsical thought.

 

[21Z5M]

Could Twilight of the Reich be in line with Rivers to the Reich?

 

[Hutch]

RtR was the conversion of the remainder of the scenarios from the official SL Series. I feel TofR is a Core module, with the Scenario numbering mentioned above (290-306.) So it would be Module 16.

 

[footsteps]

Core-schmore. It's ASL. Buy it!!!!

I certainly will.

 

[PTY]

Core-schmore. It's ASL. Buy it!!!!

I certainly will.

Do you mean rather than focusing on what category to put this into, we should fiocus on what a wonderful project it is?

 

[FrankH.]

I would imagine that you would produce a similar module to represent Seelöwe, for example. Some new double-sided boards to represent hitherto-fore un-played-on terrain. Certainly a couple of counter-sheets of new unit and weapon type. Special bayonet counters too (Who do you think you are kidding Mister Hitler?). These would all need rules updates. Plus about twenty scenarios including "The Battle of Timothy Whites" and "Seizing the Jolly Roger". Not that I am advocating the product (of course I would buy it) but merely saying out loud a whimsical thought.

Seriously though, it is not impossible to imagine an ASL expansion involving riverine patrol boats as used along the lower Danube and into the Black and Crimea Seas. This could include S-boats and similar which were employed in the low countries and in the Baltic. (There are already plenty of river mapboards.) Also, AFV carrying ferry boats, like used at Remagen. There were boats in the Volga at Stalingrad... and canal boats in Berlin. Maybe others.

We have had rules for rafts (E6.41) for decades now - but no counters!? Why? Some kind of an economy measure?! There might be new raft ideas - large enough to carry SW or more. (Or is all this already in the Dinant HASL?) If so, no matter it might be offered at little effort in an armed boats expansion. Such an expansion could also cover bridges in a bit more detail. Now we have only wooden, stone, and pontoon. Would be difficult to do a Remagen bridge HASL properly without new rules.

The above might (but probably should not be) combined with an expansion of small boats in the Pacific and China: PT boats, and boats smaller and even up to a bit larger. Seen in plenty of places on rivers in China, and in the south Pacific.

That's maybe two modules there. These two, or another module, might add a few unusual or specific aircraft and glider types to the mix. Searchlights. The timber poles erected to defend against glider landings at Normandy. New types of pillboxes, bunkers, and related prepared defenses as were used by the Russians and by Partisans in the early years of Barbarrosa. All with new counters and artwork.

So that's maybe up to three product ideas there.

Did anyone ask if TotR will include armored, and armed, trains? Someone is working on that idea, reportedly.

"Planes, Trains, and Automobiles (I mean, Boats)" On the other hand, what the heck? Throw some Civilian-style vehicles in there too.

 

[Robin Reeve]

... And armored trains.

 

[pensatl1962]

Seriously though, it is not impossible to imagine an ASL expansion involving riverine patrol boats as used along the lower Danube and into the Black and Crimea Seas. This could include S-boats and similar which were employed in the low countries and in the Baltic. (There are already plenty of river mapboards.) Also, AFV carrying ferry boats, like used at Remagen. There were boats in the Volga at Stalingrad... and canal boats in Berlin. Maybe others.

We have had rules for rafts (E6.41) for decades now - but no counters!? Why? Some kind of an economy measure?! There might be new raft ideas - large enough to carry SW or more. (Or is all this already in the Dinant HASL?) If so, no matter it might be offered at little effort in an armed boats expansion. Such an expansion could also cover bridges in a bit more detail. Now we have only wooden, stone, and pontoon. Would be difficult to do a Remagen bridge HASL properly without new rules.

The above might (but probably should not be) combined with an expansion of small boats in the Pacific and China: PT boats, and boats smaller and even up to a bit larger. Seen in plenty of places on rivers in China, and in the south Pacific.

That's maybe two modules there. These two, or another module, might add a few unusual or specific aircraft and glider types to the mix. Searchlights. The timber poles erected to defend against glider landings at Normandy. New types of pillboxes, bunkers, and related prepared defenses as were used by the Russians and by Partisans in the early years of Barbarrosa. All with new counters and artwork.

So that's maybe up to three product ideas there.

Did anyone ask if TotR will include armored, and armed, trains? Someone is working on that idea, reportedly.

"Planes, Trains, and Automobiles (I mean, Boats)" On the other hand, what the heck? Throw some Civilian-style vehicles in there too.

Make It So Picard GIF - Make It So Picard - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

 

[21Z5M]

RtR was the conversion of the remainder of the scenarios from the official SL Series. I feel TofR is a Core module, with the Scenario numbering mentioned above (290-306.) So it would be Module 16.

I was thinking along the vein of the late war years

 

[wrongway149]

... And armored trains.

Did anyone ask if TotR will include armored, and armed, trains? Someone is working on that idea, reportedly.

Either the Polish thing or Rotterdam(?) HASL.

 

[Tom Morin]

Did someone say armored trains and Volga river craft?

 

[william.stoppel]

Seriously though, it is not impossible to imagine an ASL expansion involving riverine patrol boats as used along the lower Danube and into the Black and Crimea Seas. This could include S-boats and similar which were employed in the low countries and in the Baltic. (There are already plenty of river mapboards.) Also, AFV carrying ferry boats, like used at Remagen. There were boats in the Volga at Stalingrad... and canal boats in Berlin. Maybe others.

We have had rules for rafts (E6.41) for decades now - but no counters!? Why? Some kind of an economy measure?! There might be new raft ideas - large enough to carry SW or more. (Or is all this already in the Dinant HASL?) If so, no matter it might be offered at little effort in an armed boats expansion. Such an expansion could also cover bridges in a bit more detail. Now we have only wooden, stone, and pontoon. Would be difficult to do a Remagen bridge HASL properly without new rules.

The above might (but probably should not be) combined with an expansion of small boats in the Pacific and China: PT boats, and boats smaller and even up to a bit larger. Seen in plenty of places on rivers in China, and in the south Pacific.

That's maybe two modules there. These two, or another module, might add a few unusual or specific aircraft and glider types to the mix. Searchlights. The timber poles erected to defend against glider landings at Normandy. New types of pillboxes, bunkers, and related prepared defenses as were used by the Russians and by Partisans in the early years of Barbarrosa. All with new counters and artwork.

So that's maybe up to three product ideas there.

Did anyone ask if TotR will include armored, and armed, trains? Someone is working on that idea, reportedly.

"Planes, Trains, and Automobiles (I mean, Boats)" On the other hand, what the heck? Throw some Civilian-style vehicles in there too.

Armored Trains module is being worked on by Steve Swann and Robert Hammond for LFT. Progressing fairly well. Nice to see MMP doing it as well

 

[pwashington]

Pre-order is active on the MMP site. It's listed under core modules, so I guess that settles the discussion.

 

[william.stoppel]

Winter Offensive 2024 pack is also up for preorder. Nice of MMP to put both of these up for preorder together.

 

[criticalhit]

... And armored trains.

isnt there someone aIready working on a huge earIy war offering repIete with armored trains PoIish troops etc?

 

[criticalhit]

Here is the cover....

View attachment 27704

Could Twilight of the Reich be the wrong titIe for this photo or couId this photo be the wrong cover art for the TwiIight of the Reich. Just say that titIe to yourseIf. What is the first image that comes to mind? To me it wouId be a box cover with Germans and Russians fighting it out for controI of BerIin itseIf!. Think about it. You can't come up with a titIe Iike this without at Ieast coming up with an AIternative Box ARt and yes maybe SS counters in the originaI BIack with siIver Iettering, dare I say it? Where is Rodger B. MacGowan when you need him !!!!?????