The 88L in Swan Song.

[TimNiesen]

The French in the redesigned Swan Song come from off board. If I understand the setup rules correctly, all German units get concealment counters, and the additional concealment counters are the source of dummy stacks. The question is concerning the 88L. I think that the unit gets a concealment counter if it is in an open ground hex, but only if it is not in LOS of a French unit. Of course, if in a concealment terrain hex normal AT rules apply. Tim

 

[aloha_brian]

If all of the French enter from off board, then the OB concealment counters are for dummy stacks. A gun (if emplaced as normal) would start HIP and be placed under a concealment if in open ground if in LOS of a French unit, it would remain HIP if in other than open ground. If the gun was not emplaced (say by being on a paved road orchard hex) it would start the game under a concealment counter.

 

[TimNiesen]

This situation has little impact in this scenario, as the German player has only one 88L, and the French player knows what it is despite it being under a concealment counter. In situations where there are multiple tanks of varying qualities, the concealment counters for units in open ground hexes might confuse somewhat an attacker coming from off board. Tim

 

[aloha_brian]

If there are concealment counters in open ground the opponent should realize that they are REAL units and not dummies, since you are not allowed to set up dummies in open ground. That would remove a lot of confusion.

 

[Juan SantaX]

You can use big concealment counters to simulate a gun in a paved orchard road... I'm very bad guessing where are the real units, so I think concealment counters are great simulating Fog of War

 

[TimNiesen]

I must admit that I am not certain of concealment counters for units in open ground but not in LOS of enemy units. But simply posing the question. Tim

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The German 88L AT Gun can set up hidden...so the French player won't know where it is initially.

 

[EagleIV]

I must admit that I am not certain of concealment counters for units in open ground but not in LOS of enemy units. But simply posing the question. Tim

Tim, you are correct, Dummies may not set up in OG, they must set up in concealment terrain (except at night). LOS to French units doesn't matter. They may of course move into OG if out of LOS or hindered, but the idea of using large Dummies in OG for possible 88 positions doesn't work.

 

[TimNiesen]

Klas, The 88L is too large for a building. So only woods and orchards suitable for HIP AT gun of this size. Open ground out of LOS of French player is not possible for 88L with concealment counters. Correct? Tim

 

[Robin Reeve]

The 88L may set up HIP in OG.

 

[sdennis]

HIP in OG can be useful and when in LOS it is placed onboard concealed!
Lots of people will do this in Hill 238 (do I remember the number right?) because HA does not negate OG

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Klas, The 88L is too large for a building. So only woods and orchards suitable for HIP AT gun of this size. Open ground out of LOS of French player is not possible for 88L with concealment counters. Correct? Tim

As others have written - a Gun can set up hidden in Open Ground.

You can even set it up in a paved road hex (though I can't reallu see a reason to do so in this scenario), then it won't be Emplaced (so no HIP), but since the French all enter from offboard you can place a "?" on top of it....

 

[TimNiesen]

News for us. We plan to have a preliminary scenario for training of new player named Dennis. Going to teach him Platoon movement with the Char Bs and at least one H39 platoon. Dennis is playing on my side in the campaign game Stonne with the French. This game should start in July. Hopefully, Steve will exit the doghouse soon. Don 1 has been trying to bribe the wife with copious amounts of quality pastry. Tim

 

[TimNiesen]

So the key prerequisite for HIP is the fact that the 88L is entrenched? Don2 was skeptical. He asserted that an 88L is as big as a bus, about ten feet tall. Tim

 

[Robin Reeve]

Not entrenched.
Emplaced.
Don't you know the difference?

 

[TimNiesen]

Sorry, Wrote the wrong word. An Emplaced gun has a plus 2 TEM protection. 360 degrees around the gun. There are various advantages. Tim

 

[TimNiesen]

In the new edition of Stonne 2016, the hard ground prohibits entrenched guns. As well as foxholes. This is owing the the hard ground. I think that this may shift the play balance in favor of the Germans. Tim

 

[TimNiesen]

Opps, emplaced guns. The spell check changed the word. Likely what happened in the first instance.

 

[TimNiesen]

The other major advantage is coming back to me...there is significant morale check advantage for a crew with an emplaced gun. Not applicable for a regular infantry manning ordnance. Tim

 

[TimNiesen]

So Robin even without my rulebook and my increasing age, my memory is still better than most. Tim