TH-Hero Attack Options as DFF

[PaulS]

I have several questions regarding TH-Heros. The primary one is:
Q1) A tank enters (non-bypass) a palm tree/road hex where a HIP TH-Hero is lurking. As A12.41 states, "...all concealed personnel must instantly either be revealed voluntarily or take one combined PAATC...". As the Hero is exempt from PAATC, does this imply that he may immediately attack the tank with CC Reaction Fire as it enters the hex? Or does the tank still have the option of OVR prior to that attack (with 1/2 FP for the enemy being HIP) even though he doesn't technically know the Hero is in the hex because no PAATC was taken?

Q2) During the TH-Hero's MPH, does it have to expend a separate MF to attack its target once he has entered the target's hex and survived all DF? This could be crucial if the Hero is wounded and only has just enough MF left to move into the target hex.

Thanks,
Paul S.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Q1. An OVR can't be declared upon entry of a hex that only contains unknown enemy units. So the THH can do a CC Reaction Fire attack vs the tank on the MP expenditure to enter the hex.

Q2. No. G1.423:
"A T-H Hero who is in his Designated Target’s Location during his MPh may make a CC attack vs it at that time, provided he has survived all Defensive First Fire allowed against him by his immediately previous MF expenditure; "

 

[PaulS]

Thanks again, Klas.
In regards to the Q1 situation, it appears that if the HIP unit did have to take a PAATC (whether it passes the TC or not), then the tank does have the option of OVR, based on the Example of Play in the Crosstown Traffic article in Journal #8, Figure 4 (Gun overrun). That was what was throwing me off a bit.
Paul S

 

[jrv]

In regards to the Q1 situation, it appears that if the HIP unit did have to take a PAATC (whether it passes the TC or not),

A unit immune to PAATC is immune to PAATC and need not take one [A12.41].

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

In regards to the Q1 situation, it appears that if the HIP unit did have to take a PAATC (whether it passes the TC or not), then the tank does have the option of OVR, based on the Example of Play in the Crosstown Traffic article in Journal #8, Figure 4 (Gun overrun).

Japanese and SMC in general do not have to take PAATC. In Figure 4 in that article it's a German 2-2-8 that's HIP - it does have to take a PAATC.

 

[jrv]

CPVA & fanatic units too. All units immune to PAATC.

JR

 

[PaulS]

In regards to the Q1 situation, it appears that if the HIP unit did have to take a PAATC (whether it passes the TC or not), then the tank does have the option of OVR, based on the Example of Play in the Crosstown Traffic article in Journal #8, Figure 4 (Gun overrun). That was what was throwing me off a bit.

I should have phrased this as, "....if a HIP unit...". I was talking in general, and not about a unit immune to PAATC.
Paul S.

 

[jrv]

It sounded as if you were suggesting that the T-H Hero had to take a PAATC on entry even though it would not lose concealment (HIP).

Depending on the circumstances a unit immune to PAATC might just let the vehicle keep moving without taking any action. A T-H Hero might be hoping that the vehicle will stop (giving it an attack without the non-stopped DRM), while another HIP unit (e.g. Japanese MG crew) might be hoping the vehicle just moves on.

JR

 

[PaulS]

Depending on the circumstances a unit immune to PAATC might just let the vehicle keep moving without taking any action. A T-H Hero might be hoping that the vehicle will stop (giving it an attack without the non-stopped DRM), while another HIP unit (e.g. Japanese MG crew) might be hoping the vehicle just moves on.

JR,
Now, getting back to the HIP TH-Hero, what happens if an infantry unit attempts to enter his palm tree/road location? As G.4 doesn't apply, he would be revealed as far as I can tell. A4.15 sez that a moving infantry unit can enter the hex of a Known SMC if they pass a TC. When does the TH-Hero become known, before or after the TC? What happens if they fail the TC, bounced back?
Thanks,
Paul S.

 

[jrv]

Now, getting back to the HIP TH-Hero, what happens if an infantry unit attempts to enter his palm tree/road location? As G.4 doesn't apply, he would be revealed as far as I can tell. A4.15 sez that a moving infantry unit can enter the hex of a Known SMC if they pass a TC. When does the TH-Hero become known, before or after the TC? What happens if they fail the TC, bounced back?

HIP T-H Heroes are treated differently than most units, per the last paragraph of G1.425. In the situation you describe such a T-H Hero would be eliminated without most effects (e.g. bounce, ending of MPh, TC, extra MF cost) to the moving enemy infantry. I think it may cause loss of concealment to the moving units, e.g. if they are not assault moving.

JR

 

[PaulS]

HIP T-H Heroes are treated differently than most units, per the last paragraph of G1.425. In the situation you describe such a T-H Hero would be eliminated without most effects (e.g. bounce, ending of MPh, TC, extra MF cost) to the moving enemy infantry. I think it may cause loss of concealment to the moving units, e.g. if they are not assault moving

JR,
Thanks, I see that situation is fully covered in G1.425. I often forget to turn the page (to G5) when referencing the lengthy TH-Hero info. It would obviously be better to keep the Hero in J, B, or K in most situations. The palm tree/road hex was a particularly good location to jump a tank in this instance. Would still need to roll for ATMM to give them a decent chance in CCV.
Paul S