St. Nazaire: Operation Chariot counters

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
2,928
Country
llUnited States
I considered myself lucky to find a copy of StN for sale. It was something I had been hunting for several years. And while most of the components are top notch, I have to say that the counters do not live up to expectations. All the counters have a red outline (for help with die cutter registration I suspect). And while the impact on the front of the counters is minimal, unfortunately the back sheet was not placed well so that the backs of all the counters have red lines across various parts of them.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,011
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
That is new to me. My counters do not have red on front or back in the way you note. I can send pix if you need proof. Wonder if yours is a one off? (or few off). I have not heard or seen of this elsewhere.
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
2,928
Country
llUnited States
That's what surprised me as well. The pictures on Desperation Morale have no hint of these lines. The only thing I can think of is that it might have been an early test/production batch. I can provide pictures as well if desired. Unfortunately I didn't notice until I had them cut out.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,011
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
I don't recall doing test runs, and if there was, then the issue would have been spotted. Maybe something shifted in a print batch (whatever a batch is) or maybe as a dye ran out and needed to be reloaded and something happened? When X returns from family matters (see the LFT shipping thread) perhaps he has a spare set, although likely not in South America where he is based now. But he might be able to assist.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,011
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
....Unfortunately I didn't notice until I had them cut out.
Wait! That is not right. These counters were produced in France (vs Spain for FFS) and one of the noted features of them was they fell of the trees like ripe apples, and did so almost perfectly, no chads etc. The cutting dye was really sharpe. As a result counters were placed in approx. 8x11" manilla envelopes. Did you really "punch" counters like we do for other games? Wonder if some one made a knock off and replaced the originals with these....

Maybe do send some pix, this to examine the feel and texture of the counters as much as possible, what are edges like.?
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
2,928
Country
llUnited States
Thanks for responding to my original post. The pictures aren't super crisp (older phone camera).

The counter sheet came in a separate bag and there was only one counter (a British MGB) that was hanging, but not completely detached. "Logo.jpg" shows what looks like a reasonable LFT logo. The pictures do show something else that I didn't notice at first, but the die cutting is pretty ragged. "Front overhang.jpg" (taken of the back of the sheet) is hard to see due to white-on-white, but I hope the shadow shows how the front paper overhangs the chipboard center. And the rest show various levels of misalignment and the red outlines on both the front and backs of the counters.
 

Attachments

Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Messages
277
Reaction score
128
Location
Saint-Brieuc
Country
llFrance
Gordon,

I have an unpunched (but partially fallen) StN countersheet and there is NO red grid printed on it (neither front nor back). So I wonder if you have received an original LFT countersheet.

Please could you provide some pictures with a higher quality ?
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,011
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
Gordon,

I have an unpunched (but partially fallen) StN countersheet and there is NO red grid printed on it (neither front nor back). So I wonder if you have received an original LFT countersheet.

Please could you provide some pictures with a higher quality ?
Ernie...I mean Laurent, ;)

He did post photos in #6. What is odd is the blue borders.

Gordon did they come like that off the tree? That is not normal. Is that Sharpie applied for the sake of the "sea" effect or core material. If core that is not right.

Counterfeiting counters is a yardarm hanging offense in most navies....

Andy
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
2,928
Country
llUnited States
I am out of town without access to the counters but will try to provide additional photos and details after New Years. Thanks for the responses guys.
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
2,928
Country
llUnited States
OK, I'm back in town. The printing certainly looks legit (except for the red counter outlines). The die cutting is pretty ragged and the fronts and backs of the counters are not aligned. Andy, the "blue border" you are asking about is just a trick of shadows and the extreme closeup of the pictures. The counter core is grey. I'm having a hard time getting a reasonable compromise between picture quality and size for upload. But here's another go.
 

Attachments

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,011
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
Hi,

It is not only the red line, it is the ragged edge that is not quite right. These counters practically jumped clean off the tree and with almost crisp edges.

I have not heard of this redline problem in other sets.
 

jeffwinto

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
84
Reaction score
43
Location
toronto
Country
llCanada
What Andy is too polite to say directly is it looks like these are copies of the originals. As Andy already mentioned the only problem of note for the real counters was that they fell off the trees.

Easily the best piece of die-cutting for any asl product.

These are fakes.
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
2,928
Country
llUnited States
It certainly seems that way, but the rest of the components look original, including the maps, so why fake the counters, add the red outlines and screw up the alignment and die cutting so badly? It doesn't appear that the "fake" counters were hand cut. It's just strange.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,011
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
Chris,

I am not sure that the second printing was a 2nd printing of counters* too as opposed to other elements. I don't track the history of runs well. Chris could well be correct here, but my gut still says "not sure." We would have to check with Xavier once he is back on line from dealing with family health issues.
 

BattleSchool

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
5,105
Reaction score
1,899
Location
Ottawa GMT -5/-4
Country
llCanada
Chris,

I am not sure that the second printing was a 2nd printing of counters* too as opposed to other elements. I don't track the history of runs well. Chris could well be correct here, but my gut still says "not sure." We would have to check with Xavier once he is back on line from dealing with family health issues.
Hey Andy,

I checked my emails from X. In August 2013 he was still waiting for the counter sheets for the second printing of Op Chariot. We received the modules in September, but the counter sheets didn't arrive until November. I think it was due to one or more problems with the printer, but couldn't say for sure.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,011
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
Chris,

Ok, Chris' e-mails establish the line of succession. So therefore it does seem a 2nd printing thing.

Andy
 
Top