S31 SSR questions

Stewart

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QUESTION:
S31
What is the MF cost to enter the EMRR of SSR2?


SSR3 Are the units (i.e. 1st line) exempted from the SSR2 if with a Leader?
There are 1st line and C units in the Italian OB>

Let me help you...as this is a free download from MMP website.

18266
 
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EagleIV

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The SSR's you quoted don't match with the questions, but let me guess a bit.

If you are moving down the road/EMRR the cost is 1MF, if you enter going from a non-EMRR hex the cost is 2MF

Per A19.3 only Green units are exempt from the restrictions of Inexperienced Personal when stacked with a leader. With this SSR it appears that all Italian MMC are considered Conscripts under A19.3.
 

Doug Leslie

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The SSR's you quoted don't match with the questions, but let me guess a bit.

If you are moving down the road/EMRR the cost is 1MF, if you enter going from a non-EMRR hex the cost is 2MF

Per A19.3 only Green units are exempt from the restrictions of Inexperienced Personal when stacked with a leader. With this SSR it appears that all Italian MMC are considered Conscripts under A19.3.
I don't think that is right. EMRRs are treated as if they are hillocks and the MF to enter one from a lower elevation is COT. Vehicles pay an extra MP if entering from a lower elevation.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I don't think that is right. EMRRs are treated as if they are hillocks and the MF to enter one from a lower elevation is COT. Vehicles pay an extra MP if entering from a lower elevation.
This is an SSR for a Starter Kit scenario....Hillocks are not part of the equation. :)
 

Stewart

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The SSR's you quoted don't match with the questions, but let me guess a bit.

If you are moving down the road/EMRR the cost is 1MF, if you enter going from a non-EMRR hex the cost is 2MF

Per A19.3 only Green units are exempt from the restrictions of Inexperienced Personal when stacked with a leader. With this SSR it appears that all Italian MMC are considered Conscripts under A19.3.
Starter Kit...Scenario S31.
Same rule though

That's not what the SSR 2 says. There is a world of difference considering them C or not. C are the only ones that get the restriction. If the SSR meant to consider them C, then just say, Other than the range of the unit, 1st line units are treated as C.

And it's redundant to say that the C units in the OB are subject to Inexperience Penalties.
It's a poorly selected SSR without the added stipulation.. It could be either.
IF there were no C in the OB would you consider the 1 line units G or C? I think your answer would change. Hence, a bad SSR.
 

Actionjick

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Starter Kit...Scenario S31.
Same rule though

That's not what the SSR 2 says. There is a world of difference considering them C or not. C are the only ones that get the restriction. If the SSR meant to consider them C, then just say, Other than the range of the unit, 1st line units are treated as C.

And it's redundant to say that the C units in the OB are subject to Inexperience Penalties.
It's a poorly selected SSR without the added stipulation.. It could be either.
IF there were no C in the OB would you consider the 1 line units G or C? I think your answer would change. Hence, a bad SSR.
C. G. 1. BP. HD. CBGB'S

Afraid to use the whole word or are you running out of ink?
 

Actionjick

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Starter Kit...Scenario S31.
Same rule though

That's not what the SSR 2 says. There is a world of difference considering them C or not. C are the only ones that get the restriction. If the SSR meant to consider them C, then just say, Other than the range of the unit, 1st line units are treated as C.

And it's redundant to say that the C units in the OB are subject to Inexperience Penalties.
It's a poorly selected SSR without the added stipulation.. It could be either.
IF there were no C in the OB would you consider the 1 line units G or C? I think your answer would change. Hence, a bad SSR.
The reason I am inclined to view your posts with a bit of sarcasm and disdain is because I highly value politeness and you come off as quite impolite. You expect those who read your posts as being able to correctly interpret your shorthand. This is especially egregious behavior when you take into account how many people on this forum do not have English as a first language. How they are able to understand the rules to whatever degree is beyond me. For you to make it even more difficult for them, and the rest of us, is unconscionable.

Regardless enjoy whatever games you play.
 

klasmalmstrom

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SSR3 Are the units (i.e. 1st line) exempted from the SSR2 if with a Leader?
I would say no - since the SSR does not explicitly state that they are treated as Green units, only that the penalties apply.

5.4 Inexperienced MMC:
Green MMC not stacked with a Good Order leader and all Conscript MMC suffer Inexperienced penalties. They have 3 MF (not 4); they cower two columns (not one); the B# or X# of a SW they use is lowered by one. Their CCV is lowered by one, and they suffer a +1 ambush drm.
 

Stewart

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Then just say "treat them as C". It leads to confusion...as that is assuming what it meant...as leaders can exempt SOME units that are subject to 5.4
its not Clear.
 

Sparafucil3

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That's not what the SSR 2 says. There is a world of difference considering them C or not.
Can you elaborate on these differences?

If the SSR meant to consider them C, then just say ...
Just say what? You come here all the time claiming how unclear SSR's or rules are then you are unclear in your own language when criticizing. You post your complaints in unfinished sentences or with unfinished thoughts. If you can't meet your own standards, it's not a standard, it's a whinge. -- jim
 
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klasmalmstrom

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Then just say "treat them as C". It leads to confusion...as that is assuming what it meant...as leaders can exempt SOME units that are subject to 5.4 its not Clear.
As we noted in another forum - this scenario is from back in 2008 - if you want to know why an SSR is written that way it is (especially this old), then you need to mail MMP and ask.

Personally, I think the SSR is clear enough (as always, ymmv) - it doesn't say they are Green, so they are not. I wouldn't read something into it that's not there.
 

Eagle4ty

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The SSR specifies ASLSK Rule 5.4 which lays out the penalties for inexperienced units and specifies all Italian MMC are subject to these penalties. Nowhere does it state they all are Conscripts or Green units and indeed the OB shows both 1st Line and Conscript units. To somehow read into the SSR that some could be Green units is almost unfathomable as that is not even remotely implied. All Italian units, even the 1st Liners, are subject to the penalties of Inexperienced MMC that's all!

5.4 Inexperienced MMC:
Green MMC not stacked with a Good Order
leader and all Conscript MMC suffer Inexperienced
penalties. They have 3 MF (not 4); they cower two
columns (not one); the B# or X# of a SW they use
is lowered by one. Their CCV is lowered by one,
and they suffer a +1 ambush drm.
 

klasmalmstrom

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All Italian units, even the 1st Liners, are subject to the penalties of Inexperienced MMC that's all!
Agree...

Granted the SSR could have said something like "Italian 1st Line MMC are considered Conscripts for Inexperienced MMC (5.4) purposes." - but at the time (2008) it was (apparently) not deemed necessary to spell it out.

That's one of the perils of writing VC/SSR/rules - what is more-or-less obvious as to intent for some, might not be for others. There's always a decision to make on how explicit to write a text (sometimes - on scenarios - given there might be space/layout issues to consider).
 

lightspeed

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Then just say "treat them as C". It leads to confusion...as that is assuming what it meant...as leaders can exempt SOME units that are subject to 5.4
its not Clear.
This (treat them as Conscripts) is different. 1st Liners ELR to Conscripts. Conscripts Disrupt.

I, for one, did not see any confusion. Your question (do leaders prevent the penalties) was a good and
reasonable one. IMHO, the rules are crystal clear as written.

I find MMP's writing is a lot like mathematical writing in the following sense: IMHO, if MMP words something
in a particular way, there is a reason they did so. If the wording were different, something would change. I
find it a good exercise (in ASL and maths) to ask myself "Why this particular wording? What would change?"

It helped me focus on what the rules actually say and mean versus what I think the rules say or mean. Here's one for
you: I saw an SSR for an MMP scenario that said "Randomly select..." and not "choose via Random Selection."
I would say it's an easy one, only because I know the answer, and we all know that "it can easily be shown..."
is mathematical double talk for "I happen to know how to do it."

Good hunting!

indy
 
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