PUZZLES #3

[mglouie]

Another building control puzzle.

Puzzle #13 SSR:

1. July, 1941. EC are moderate with no wind.
2. It is the last Russian Player Turn of the game.
3. No Prep Fire, Bounding Fire, or Advancing Fire attack will eliminate or reduce the broken German squad.
4. No Quarter is in effect for both sides.
5. The Russian AFV is a KV-1 M41 with A4 (2)/5 (3) and CS 6 on the back.

How can the Russians gain control of building M4?

Puzzle by Louie Tokarz

 

[Brian W]

How can the Russians gain control of building M4?

Drive the KV into the building hex without the brokie, and hope it falls into the celler and that the crew survives. Otherwise, you're screwed.

BTW, all these puzzles remind me why building control sucks and should rarely be used for VC. Too many stupid gamey things happening at the end of a scenario. Have any puzzles that don't involve Building control?

Edited -- Actually, I guess the thing to do is to plow into the wooden building next to the house, and then, if not bogged or fallen into the celler, it can ESB into the hex with the brokies to try it again.

 

[Doug Kirk]

Perhaps I am missing something, but this one seem spretty straight forward. You must kill the brokie in CC. There will be no prep fire. The beserker must charge into the brokies hex first. The tank goes into bypass of M4 so he can use his BMG in CC, can't risk entering the building because if you rubble it you kill your beserker and the brokie and then you have no MMC to gain control of N4 (assuming falling rubble doesn't get it too). The hero advances in for CC, while the 6+1 just watches, since you don't want his +1 DRM in CC. You should kill the brokie with two attacks, one at -2DRM (the tank) and one at -3DRM (beserker and hero), but how good your odds are of course depends on what unit the brokie is (hope a HS). If the game were longer, then the 6+1 would go upstairs to M4 lev 1 and the tank would go into bypass of N4 to prevent withdrawal on the unlikely event the Russian rolls a 12 in CC, but since this is the last turn, on a 12 the Russian loses anyway.

 

[Matt Romey]

How can the Russians gain control of building M4?

Drive the KV into the building hex without the brokie, and hope it falls into the celler and that the crew survives. Otherwise, you're screwed.

I guess so. But, if you eliminate the broken MMC in the RtPh for FTR, then the berserk unit will revert to Good Order status because there are no KEU in LOS (A15.431). This can be done in many ways by maneuvering the other three Russian units. Since the Beserker will already have charged into M4.0, he will Control the building immediately.

The only nitpick is that my v1 rulebook says this reversion to GO happens at "the end of the charge" which is kind of vague to me. Don't know what v2 says. I don't really see how a unit could disappear between the beginning and end of a beserkers movement (though I'm sure someone will think of something) so I have to assume they mean "by the end of the Player Turn". (?)

 

[Brian W]

[quote="Matt Romey]I guess so. But, if you eliminate the broken MMC in the RtPh for FTR, then the berserk unit will revert to Good Order status because there are no KEU in LOS (A15.431).[/quote]

Not sure what A15.431 has to do with it. The beserk unit will charge and end its charge in the building. The brokie will then die for failure to rout, leaving the beserker SOL per A15.43.

I guess you are saying that a beserker's charge is a process that takes place throughout the whole player turn, not just the MPh. It has never occured to me that that is what is meant by A15.431. I have always played that a charge begins and ends in the unit's MPh. The removal of BSK status per A15.431 would be if a BSK unit charges an empty location, gets there and sees no enemy units. At that point the charge ends and the BSK status is removed at the end of the MPh.

 

[Brian W]

You must kill the brokie in CC.

Can't be done. A broken unit cannot remain in a known enemy unit's location during the RtPh. It must rout, or die for failure to rout in this case. The key is that the Sovs need a Good Order MMC to control the building, and they don't have one, unless the beserker returns to normal or the tank crew passes a CS DR (can't abandon since that take all MF leaving them a hex short of the building).

 

[Doug Kirk]

Yeah, Brian I gacked that badly, that is what I get for taking all of 2 seconds to think about my answer (at work when I should have been working). The brokies can't be killed in CC. CS from the tank is the only way I see to win. Per my understanding of the rules, the beserker will stay beserk as you pointed out.

 

[mglouie]

There are two ways to gain building control here, you guys already guessed the tank crew, there is one more. :wink:

 

[AdrianE]

The answer to this problem is to play by ASLRB v1.0 rules! In v1.0 building control is established by an *unbroken* MMC while in v2.0 it requires a *GOOD ORDER* MMC.

The beserk unit can not return to normal in this puzzle. Beserks return to normal only if they kill a unit with Advance fire or CC or if they end their charge out of LOS of all enemy units. That is not going to happen here. The only other way to get a good order MMC is to have the AFV fall into the cellar and have the crew survive.

Assuming v1.0 rules this is how I would play it:

Beserk unit charges and enters the broken squads hex. One of the SMCs moves to the upper level of the broken squads hex to deny the rout upstairs. The tank moves to the other hex of the building. The tank enters the building to gain control of the location. If the tank drops into the cellar and the crew dies move the other SMC into the ground level of the building to prevent rout to that hex. The German unit will rout out of the building and the Russians will have an unbroken MMC in the building thus taking control of it.

Under v2.0 rules drive the tank into the broken squads hex, if you don't fall into the cellar, ESB and drive into the adjacent building hex. That will give you two attempts for the cellar.

Note the situation in this puzzle is impossible to get to in a game with the units at hand. The SMCs would have to be concealed otherwise the broken German squad would have had to rout in the previous German player turn.

Adrian

 

[Brian W]

There are two ways to gain building control here, you guys already guessed the tank crew, there is one more. :wink:

Edit -- the stuff below cannot happen since a beserker must move first. Still, I thought it was brilliant!

And I just thought of it. When you drive the tank into the hex with the brokie, if you rubble the hex, you will kill the german. This will cause the BSK squad to chage the rubble hex, get there, see no enemy units to charge, and then revert to normal, advancing into the remaining building location for the win.

Of course, you may end up rubbling the entire building and thus losing the game this way, but if you don't land in the celler, it is your only chance.[/i]

 

[samtyson]

That would be cool...but the Zerkie has to move first according to the ASOP.

 

[mglouie]

The answer to this problem is to play by ASLRB v1.0 rules! In v1.0 building control is established by an *unbroken* MMC while in v2.0 it requires a *GOOD ORDER* MMC.

Adrian

As far as I can remember, in V1 you had to have a 'Good Order' MMC to control a building. I don't believe building control has changed from V1 to V2, supposedly it is just clearified and less ambiguous.

 

[AdrianE]

The answer to this problem is to play by ASLRB v1.0 rules! In v1.0 building control is established by an *unbroken* MMC while in v2.0 it requires a *GOOD ORDER* MMC.

Adrian

As far as I can remember, in V1 you had to have a 'Good Order' MMC to control a building. I don't believe building control has changed from V1 to V2, supposedly it is just clearified and less ambiguous.

That's why I looked it up last night! I checked my v1.0 rules and under building control it says "unbroken". I then checked the V2.0 rules. Now I didn't check the V1.0 Q&A or update pages to see if it ever got erraticized or updated.

Adrian

 

[mglouie]

Adrian,

Check page A42"98" and page A43"98" and read A26.11 and A26.14.

I made this puzzle way before ASLRB V2 came out, so I know 'Good Order' status was neccessary for gaining control of a building.

Ciao

 

[Hubbs5]

Puzzle #3

While driving a tank into the cellar and hoping for CS is definitely worth some style points it is also a longshot. The key to Russian victory here is to prevent the German unit from routing away from the berserker in the rout phase. I would suggest the following:

MPh: Berserker moves first and charges into M4. A CC counter is placed on them both but they are not locked in melee per Rule A 15.432. Next the tank goes CE and goes into bypass of M4 and stops. This now does hold the brokie in melee per Rule A 11.15. The brokie must now wait until the CC phase and try to withdraw from the melee.

Advance phase: The hero advances into M4 to help with the CC attack and the 6+1 watches as he would be no help.

CC phase: Roll for ambush, not likely with the berserker and the vehicle DRM's but still a possibility. Now the tank gets his CC attack and gets to use the DRM's -2 withdrawing and -2 broken. His 4 CMG and 2 RMG give him a 6 FP to the squads 5 CCV so it is a 1:1 - 4. Eliminates the squad on an 8 and CR's it on a 9. Next the berserker and hero can attack and they have a 5 FP and if it is a broken 4-6-8 thats a 1:1 -5 with the hero DRM or even -6 if they ambushed him. Even if the brokie is an 8-3-8 thats still a 1:2 -5 or -6 killing the squad on an 8 or less. Unless you roll really poorly these 2 attacks should eliminate the German and since Rule A 15.46 says the berserker returns to normal when it or the group it attacks with eliminates an enemy unit the berserker returns to normal and the building is controlled.

 

[mglouie]

Re: Puzzle #3

MPh: Berserker moves first and charges into M4. A CC counter is placed on them both but they are not locked in melee per Rule A 15.432. Next the tank goes CE and goes into bypass of M4 and stops. This now does hold the brokie in melee per Rule A 11.15. The brokie must now wait until the CC phase and try to withdraw from the melee.

I believe you are misreading A11.15 Hubbs. The second sentence is the problem, the word 'also' is the key here.

 

[Matt Romey]

3. No Prep Fire, Bounding Fire, or Advancing Fire attack will eliminate or reduce the broken German squad.

But fire _could_ HoB and auto-rally the broken German squad, which would allow the berzerk unit to potentially eliminate it in CC and regain GO status by turn end.

 

[Fred Ingram]

Matt Wrote:

But fire _could_ HoB and auto-rally the broken German squad, which would allow the berzerk unit to potentially eliminate it in CC and regain GO status by turn end.

Yes - that is possible but HIGHLY unlikely.

The point of these puzzles is to find a solution which has a reasonable (read - better than average) chance of acheiving the correct result. These are not like chess end-game type puzzles where there may be a strict absolute solution (because chess is not probabillity based).

 

[AdrianE]

Adrian,

Check page A42"98" and page A43"98" and read A26.11 and A26.14.

I made this puzzle way before ASLRB V2 came out, so I know 'Good Order' status was neccessary for gaining control of a building.

Ciao

You are correct. However the original 1986 v1.0 says "unbroken". This was changed by Q&A in the '93b annual to "good order". The DB pages were issued in '98.

My answer was valid between '86 and mid '93.

So what is the second method?

Adrian

 

[mglouie]

hehehe, Adrian,

This is 2003 dude! Why not just use SL or GI rules to solve these? :wink: