PIN counter and its info
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Tater
Elder Member
I am looking at the Pin counter and I don't see "NO SF" anywhere on it.
All I see is...
NO
FT/DC/IF
or
Multi ROF
FT = Flame Thrower
DC = Demo-Charge
IF = Intensive Fire
Multi ROF = Multiple Rate of Fire
Sparafucil3
Forum Guru
You have old PIN counters like me. I opened my unpunched BV ver 3 and the "NO SF" is there. Could it be "No Street Fighting"? Could also mean that you can not use a vehicles "Side Mounted Flamethrower" as the index has an entry for SF:
-- jim
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Jazz
Inactive
"No SF" could also equate to "No Sustained Fire", which would be consistent with "No IF" above.
Sparafucil3
Forum Guru
Good catch Jazz. I think this is the correct answer. -- jim
klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
But, that wouldn't be correct, would it ?
An MMC armed with a MG and firing that MG as Subsequent First Fire would be using Sustained Fire for that MG, would it not ?
and surely he can fire the MG as SFF even he is Pinned ?
So that it means "No Street Fighting" seems more likely to me.
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Jazz
Inactive
Good point....indeed, the rules specifically say that a unit MUST FPF using any MG as sustained fire if another infantry unit enters it's hex.
The rules also specifically state that a pinned unit can use Subsequent Fire/FPF, which FPF implies sustained fire for any MG.
It was just a thought....
Sparafucil3
Forum Guru
I agree it is a good thought, but I bet it was an uninteded consequence. It makes no sense to not allow a PINNED crew IF their 20L fire at Infantry using ITT but to allow them to fire the same 20L at the same Infantry using IFE as Sustained Fire. I bet when the counter was printed no one even thought about the effects this would have on an MG. Just thinking out loud. -- jim
klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
Maybe, but the rules specifically allows an IFE weapon to be used as SFF (even if Pinned).
richfam
Member
The "No SF" also appears on the PIN counters in ASLSK #1 & #2.
I wouldn't think that "SF" means Street Fighting (A11.8) because that requires infantry to advance (which IS prohibited when pinned).
Here's the complete list of Pin effects as I have them:
PIN
NA if Cavalry, vehicles, in Water Obstacles, berserk, Heroic, Aerial, Climbing
FP x 1/2 [EXC: CC defense]
Fire MG/IFE/Canister as Area Fire
No advance, move
No FT/DC/IF, Multiple ROF, CA change
+2 To Hit DR Case D
CT AFV CE crew goes BU
OT AFV CE crew remains CE, +2 To Hit DR Case D,
MG/IFE/FT/Canister FP x 1/2
CE Passengers go BU
AFV Riders Bail Out
No FFMO, FFNAM
Leader may not use leadership rating
No SMC Voluntary Rout
CCV reduced by 1
No Tank-Hunter Hero creation
Remove if broken, goes berserk, becomes Battle Hardened, becomes Heroic
I wouldn't think that "SF" means Street Fighting (A11.8) because that requires infantry to advance (which IS prohibited when pinned).
Here's the complete list of Pin effects as I have them:
PIN
NA if Cavalry, vehicles, in Water Obstacles, berserk, Heroic, Aerial, Climbing
FP x 1/2 [EXC: CC defense]
Fire MG/IFE/Canister as Area Fire
No advance, move
No FT/DC/IF, Multiple ROF, CA change
+2 To Hit DR Case D
CT AFV CE crew goes BU
OT AFV CE crew remains CE, +2 To Hit DR Case D,
MG/IFE/FT/Canister FP x 1/2
CE Passengers go BU
AFV Riders Bail Out
No FFMO, FFNAM
Leader may not use leadership rating
No SMC Voluntary Rout
CCV reduced by 1
No Tank-Hunter Hero creation
Remove if broken, goes berserk, becomes Battle Hardened, becomes Heroic
Blackcloud6
Elder Member
It means "No Sex or Falla... (you know what I mean)" :clown:
klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
You can also use Street Fighting as Reaction Fire - but only if you are not Pinned - see rules chapter D7.
D7.21:
"7.21 CC REACTION FIRE: Each Infantry/Cavalry DEFENDER unit that is unbroken, unpinned and neither Unarmed..."
D7.211:
"7.211 STREET FIGHTING: CC Reaction Fire may use Street Fighting (A11.8—including the Street Fighting Ambush -1 CC DRM) vs an ADJACENT vehicle if the units involved meet all the requirements for both."
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Mr Incredible
Rod loves red undies
....maybe it means No Sudden Flatulence???
:ciao:
:ciao:
richfam
Member
I missed the D7.21 citation... another entry for my list. Thank you!
serpico
Member
I wonder if SF refers to "Spraying Fire"?
A7.34 says it's limited to 3 hexes max, any long range fire that is also at 3 hexes would be halved...so a pinned Russian 6-2-8 squad firing at 3 hex range would have the following FP:
6FP/2=3FP at 2 hex range (2 adjacent hexes)
3FP/2=1 1/2FP rounded down to 1FP at 3 hex range(long range)
1FP/2=1/2FP for being pinned, this is off the IFT chart.
This is just one example...A9.5 and A8.24 give better examples of its use, etc.
serpico
A7.34 says it's limited to 3 hexes max, any long range fire that is also at 3 hexes would be halved...so a pinned Russian 6-2-8 squad firing at 3 hex range would have the following FP:
6FP/2=3FP at 2 hex range (2 adjacent hexes)
3FP/2=1 1/2FP rounded down to 1FP at 3 hex range(long range)
1FP/2=1/2FP for being pinned, this is off the IFT chart.
This is just one example...A9.5 and A8.24 give better examples of its use, etc.
serpico
richfam
Member
I posted this question over on CSW in the ASL folder, in the hopes of maybe getting an "official" answer... but no one from MMP has commented on it, and the rest of the discussion was similar to the comments in this thread.
The "new" Pin counter info is not quite as new as some may have thought: the counter illustration on page A16 of the 2nd edition RB (A7.8) includes the mysterious "No SF" prohibition.
The "new" Pin counter info is not quite as new as some may have thought: the counter illustration on page A16 of the 2nd edition RB (A7.8) includes the mysterious "No SF" prohibition.