LVT's and BRT CGII

[Cpt. Hopper]

Hi!
I´m about to play, Blood Reef Tarawa CG II, next weekend and have a couple of questions.

1) The rules regarding carriers, (D 6.8-6.9), do they apply to LVT's?

2) What movement mode do they use? Amphibious Exponent or ordinary MP factor when moving on shallow reef?

Please clear this out for me so I can get back to the war. :devil:
Cheers!
Chris

 

[countermanCX]

Hi Chris,

1) No. Nor are they D6.6 Armored Halftracks - LVT Passengers are always halved for Mounted Fire. See also SSR BRT11 on the back of the BRT7 scenario card.

2) BRT Ocean is G13.431 Submerged Reef. It is shallow-Ocean & NOT a Water Obstacle. Everything will be Wading, not floating - & LVTs will use their ordinary MPs (2 (entering shallow stream) +1 (waterproofed wading vehicle) = 3MP per hex). Being waterproofed, they are immune to Ocean Bog. OTOH tanks will be 4MP + Bog DR in every hex.

Enjoy your trip to sunny Betio. And keep reminding yourself, "I'm the USMC - I'm +2 to my PMC."

 

[AdrianE]

Also keep in mind that the LVTs require 50% of their MP to load/unload. That effectively means that you can only move 1 hex (3MP) and unload in any given turn. The passangers use 1 MF for each 3 or 3.25MP spent by the LVT. You can't ESB to unload as the passangers have used 100% of their MF allotment when the LVT exceeds 12 (or 13)MP.

Move 1 shallow ocean hex - 3MP
Stop - 1MP
Unload - 6MP

 

[Cpt. Hopper]

More on LVT's

Hi thanks for the replies!
I have a couple of followup questions however.

1) Where in the rulebook can I find the information about LVT's not beeing considred carriers, It's not that I doubt you CountermanCX, It's just that I want to know for future reference.

2) How does it work when my chaps fire at an LVT. Do the PRC's get +2 if CE and if they BU i can't hurt them?

Cheers!

Chris

 

[Tork]

Okay, I'll see what I can tell you about firing at LVTs...

First, when trying to hit them with ordnance in the lagoon, they are +2 for moving/motion (almost always), and an additional +2 for wading. Fortunately for you (sounds like you are playing the Japanese), there is also the -1 for large target size. So before acquisition, you start out at +3. So that is a good reason to buy the 37Ls with a ROF of 3.

Your 50mm mortars, of which you have zillions, are also good for shooting at LVTs. The water will muffle the explosion for half FP, but the low armor and being OT will mean your 1FP attack has a real chance of doing something. It might seem like a low odds attack, but add in some 10 or 15 of them, and the dice have to give you something good sometime. These mortars are more effective when you can hit the LVT while it is sitting on the hard sand beach.

Assuming you get a direct fire hit from that 37L on an LVT in the water, there is a +1 to the TK DR for a hull hit. More cushioning from the water. This does lower the chance of a burning wreck, which is not bad. As a Japanese player, I'd rather see survivors trying to wade in than the plume of smoke for follow-on waves to hide behind.

As for Carriers in D6.8, they were not at Betio. Vehicles which are Carriers are listed in the British vehicle notes.

As for CE passengers, we're trying to clarify their ability to firegroup their inherent FP with the MG armament of the LVT with Perry. Otherwise, if they stick their heads up, hit 'em with the 0.50cal HMGs. You did buy 0.50cal HMGs, right???

Just the tip of the iceberg of BRT--have fun! If you have other questions that come up during your game, send them here. Some good Betio veterans are around...

 

[countermanCX]

Hi chris,

1) gosh - if the LVTs were Carriers, wouldn't they be called Carriers, not LVTs? I don't think I could find a rules ref for you, unless maybe Ch. D footnote 8 suffices. Conversely, what rule could be cited to prove an LVT is considered to be a Carrier?

2) yes - +2 if CE, not vulnerable (to direct fire IFT attacks) when BU. D6.61-.62 apply (except the unarmored LVT2 (not used in BRT) which is always CE). D5.33 sez that PRC share the same BU/CE status (except if broken/stunned). MGs also have a fair AP TK chance, especially at range < 7.

I see you will be playing the IJN rikusentai - in that case, keep chanting to your oppo, "By the time you reach the beach, you won't have enough guys left to form a ball team."

 

[AdrianE]

Read the Seaborne Assault rules, the BRT rules, BRT SSRs and vehicle notes very very carefully. There is a lot of stuff going on here. Then read them again.

LVTs are neither carriers nor half-tracks. So you can't use any of the nifty carrier or half track rules like fire grouping.

There is a section in the seabourne assault rules that tells you how to mark an LVT if CE but passengers are BU and the other various combinations.

 

[Cpt. Hopper]

Brt Cg Ii

Thanks for the info guys!

Now I think I can realy get down to nailing those USMC fast approching my beaches. I'm going to go for the"stopp them on the beaches tactics" on this one.
By the way I think the reason I might have mucked up the rules concerning the LVT's is thata they are refered to as aAPC's in Chap. H. The same as APC for British Carriers, nevermind :cheeky:
Cheers!
Chris

 

[Hexagoner]

LVTs and firegroups

LVTs are neither carriers nor half-tracks. So you can't use any of the nifty carrier or half track rules like fire grouping.

I'm not so sure about this. A7.51 states “Vehicles/Passengers/Riders may be part of a FG within certain restrictions, see D6.64.†D6.64 states “... A passenger may be part of a FG composed only of other Passenger/vehicle mounted non-ordnance weapons, and only if all elements of that FG are on the same vehicle," and goes on to give exceptions for armored halftracks which allows them to do more. D6.6 is in the Halftrack section of the rules; however the relatively obscure A7.51 makes the D6.64 combination of AFV/Passenger fire groups clearly applicable to non armored-HTs too.

Take a look and see what you think?

hex

 

[Tork]

I'm not so sure about this. A7.51 states “Vehicles/Passengers/Riders may be part of a FG within certain restrictions, see D6.64.†D6.64 states “... A passenger may be part of a FG composed only of other Passenger/vehicle mounted non-ordnance weapons, and only if all elements of that FG are on the same vehicle," and goes on to give exceptions for armored halftracks which allows them to do more. D6.6 is in the Halftrack section of the rules; however the relatively obscure A7.51 makes the D6.64 combination of AFV/Passenger fire groups clearly applicable to non armored-HTs too.

Take a look and see what you think?

hex

We've had quite a bit of debate over this issue--that is why it has to go to the boss...

 

[countermanCX]

IMO LVT Passengers may FG w/ their vehicle's MGs (only). An in-hex but out-of-vehicle leader can't modify their fire.

Since submerged-reef/shallow-Ocean is not a Water Obstacle, are Riders allowed on Wading vehicles?

 

[apbills]

I'm not sure what the issue is with the FG rules for the LVTs - D6.64 coveres it pretty clearly.

A Passenger may be part of a FG composed only of other Passengers/vehicular-mounted non-ordnance weapons, and only if all elements of that FG are on the same vehicle

Also note Note H - An Armor/Passenger leader may direct the fire of more than one vehicular-mounted/Passenger-fired MG only if those MG are firing together as a FG.

Seems to imply they can FG.


Riders are limited to tanks (not tankettes), TD, SPA, Carriers (limited capacity; 6.81), and Assault Guns.

LVTs don't make the list, however, the wading rules do state "The pertinent rules for units allowed to move in water apply unchanged except as stated otherwise. "

I can find no limitation on the use of riders for those vehicles allowed. An interesting find.....

It was 6 degrees out this morning... I can almost feel the sun baking the sand now...