LOS through a Building Question

[thively]

I'm playing a scenario and a disagreement about LOS through a multihex level 1.5 building has come up. (Screenshot of situation is attached.)

German units are firing from level 2 (red arrow pointing up on board b) and the target hex, with Russian units, are on level one of a multihex level 1.5 building (red arrow pointing to targets).
There is a building hex between the firer and the target.

My opponent says that LOS exists based on this rule: "A6.21: "Half-Level Obstacles. Any terrain feature defined as a half-level obstacle blocks all same-level LOS through (not into or out of) that terrain hex. Half-level obstacles never form Blind Hexes nor block LOS to/from a higher-level Location."

I'm thinking that a building height half-level is not listed in the index defining half-level obstacles. So, it is still a full level building obstacle and would leave two blind hexes to a shot five hexes away.

Is there LOS between the level 2 and level 1 locations?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Are you firing from the second level of B4 at a target in L2? The LOS is blocked by L1.

 

[Binchois]

There is no LOS simply because the rest of the Russians' building is in the way (hexes L1 and/or M2)! If the rest of that building was ground level only (with L2 being the only 1.5 level hex), then LOS would exist. The rule you cite means that if C1 happened to be a 1.5-level hex, LOS would still exist to the 1st-level of L1 or M2.

 

[thively]

Are you firing from the second level of B4 at a target in L2? The LOS is blocked by L1.

Yes, that is the situation, opponent is saying that the LOS from B4 level 2 to L1 level one is clear. Is the applicable rule disallowing this LOS A6.4?

 

[thively]

There is no LOS simply because the rest of the Russians' building is in the way (hexes L1 and/or M2)! If the rest of that building was ground level only (with L2 being the only 1.5 level hex), then LOS would exist. The rule you cite means that if C1 happened to be a 1.5-level hex, LOS would still exist to the 1st-level of L1 or M2.

I agree with you, my opponent is saying that since his firing unit is at level 2, it sees over any level 1.5 building. Is there a better rule to quote than the blind hex rule A6.4?

 

[Binchois]

The building rules leave a few funny gaps where common sense should prevail. But I think the end of B23.25 covers this:

LOS to a unit in a building Location [EXC: rooftop Location] can exist only if drawn to an ADJACENT unit or (for LOS between different hexes) if the LOS as it enters the hex does not cross a hexside within the building depiction (e.g., in contrast to 1X3/X4).​

​

Note, this text was added as errata to the 1st-edition 2nd-edition RB.

​

 

[Michael Dorosh]

If it is possible to see over one hex of a building to targets in a hex further away but within the same building then I have been playing this game wrong for 35 years(!)

 

[Binchois]

If it is possible to see over one hex of a building to targets in a hex further away but within the same building then I have been playing this game wrong for 35 years(!)

Haven't we all?!

...I thought this went with the ASL territory.

 

[Mister T]

While common sense should hopefully prevail, it's another detail to clarify for good in the 3rd edition.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I thought the rules quote above did make it clear.

 

[thively]

The building rules leave a few funny gaps where common sense should prevail. But I think the end of B23.25 covers this:

LOS to a unit in a building Location [EXC: rooftop Location] can exist only if drawn to an ADJACENT unit or (for LOS between different hexes) if the LOS as it enters the hex does not cross a hexside within the building depiction (e.g., in contrast to 1X3/X4).​

​

Note, this text was added as errata to the 1st-edition RB.

​

Thank you, this is helpful. Again, I'm not defending the idea that the LOS is open, my opponent just threw me that LOS curveball over something that never occurred to me as even potentially possible when imagining a "real" building.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The building rules leave a few funny gaps where common sense should prevail. But I think the end of B23.25 covers this:

LOS to a unit in a building Location [EXC: rooftop Location] can exist only if drawn to an ADJACENT unit or (for LOS between different hexes) if the LOS as it enters the hex does not cross a hexside within the building depiction (e.g., in contrast to 1X3/X4).​

​

Note, this text was added as errata to the 1st-edition RB.

It was actually added as errata to the 2nd Edtion Rulebook - ASL Journal 5.

B23.25: At the end add “LOS to a unit in a building Location [EXC: rooftop Location] can exist only if drawn to an ADJACENT unit or (for LOS between different hexes) if the LOS as it enters the hex does not cross a hexside within the building depiction (e.g., in contrast to 1X3/1X4).”

 

[sdennis]

I remember years back BEFORE that change you could wind your way through the rules to say that LOS was clear. Jim Taylor and I worked through it multiple times and there may even be an old thread here somewhere.

We called it the SkyLight LOS, because you would have been shooting through the skylights in the other hex to hit that "inside" guy.

The rules did allow it before that errata trust me... it was convoluted but you could get there.

 

[Pyth]

I remember years back BEFORE that change you could wind your way through the rules to say that LOS was clear. Jim Taylor and I worked through it multiple times and there may even be an old thread here somewhere.

We called it the SkyLight LOS, because you would have been shooting through the skylights in the other hex to hit that "inside" guy.

The rules did allow it before that errata trust me... it was convoluted but you could get there.

Although I am a RBed 2 player .... I had a opponent mention this "Skylight LOS" thing to me... I thought he was insane.