Ignoring building/woods hex question during rout

lt_steiner

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I have a question relative to the way ignoring building/woods hex during rout works. In the following example, a Slovakian HS in E5 must rout. Two KEU are visible in D3 and D4.
May the building hex in C6 be ignored because it is 2-hex distant from a KEU in D4, and thus not farther than KEU in D3 ?
Or should the distances be compared according to the same KEU, i.e. routing to C6 hex increases the distance from both KEU in D3 and D4 relative to the starting hex?
A10.51: A routing unit may also ignore a building/woods hex if that hex is no farther from a Known enemy unit than its starting hex.
Thanks.

24625
 

EagleIV

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You have to rout to (or at least towards) C6 since it is 2 hexes from D4 (which is only 1 hex from you at the start of the rout) and it is 3 hexes from D3 (which is 2 hexes from you at the start of the rout) and there is a rout path allowing you to get there.
You could LC to E6 if you didn't want to go all the way to C6 (and maybe later rout through the orchards somewhere around E9).
 

DVexile

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You have to rout to (or at least towards) C6 since it is 2 hexes from D4 (which is only 1 hex from you at the start of the rout) and it is 3 hexes from D3 (which is 2 hexes from you at the start of the rout) and there is a rout path allowing you to get there.
You could LC to E6 if you didn't want to go all the way to C6 (and maybe later rout through the orchards somewhere around E9).
What about the unit in B4? That might make routing to C6 impossible. The broken unit might see them from D6 and then couldn’t move towards them to get into C6. Seems like a LOS check would be in order?
 

Jazz

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What about the unit in B4? That might make routing to C6 impossible. The broken unit might see them from D6 and then couldn’t move towards them to get into C6. Seems like a LOS check would be in order?
I have very serious doubts about them being able to see them from D6 over that building in C6? Hard to tell without putting a string on it?
 

DVexile

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I have very serious doubts about them being able to see them from D6 over that building in C6?
Yeah, that tiny little out building probably blocks the LOS. I didn’t really notice it at first since it was at the tip of the blue line annotation.
 

EagleIV

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True it is possible that from D6 the unit might see B4 however the INITIAL rout target still has to be C6 and only after routing to D6 is an LOS check made and if it is clear, then a new rout target would have to be picked. In this case it could be B7, or B7 could be ignored since it is the same range to B4 at this time and the unit could pick D9 or E9.
 

lt_steiner

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Yeah, that tiny little out building probably blocks the LOS. I didn’t really notice it at first since it was at the tip of the blue line annotation.
There is no LOS from B4 to D6, because it is blocked by the tiny building. The map is 5a and we are playing J210 btw.
 

Eagle4ty

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First, the HS in D3 is a KEU to the brokie and 2 hexes away. Hex C6 is also 2 hexes distance from the brokie and as such can be ignored as a rout destination, A10.51 EXC as you noted since this releases the broken unit from having to claim C6 as the nearest in MF.

Secondly, The rule does not state the KEU has to be the closest one to the broken unit, nor does the EXC mention the distance to the KEU or the potential rout destination must be counted in MF to be excluded as the final destination (Though the rout path must be so).

Thirdly, the next available rout destinations visible (assuming no other locations not shown are available) is B7 & I believe E9 (if that's a building there), both at 5MF path. This will give the broken unit options as where to rout to/towards as it is possibly subject to interdiction in C7 as it routs to B7.
 

EagleIV

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First, the HS in D3 is a KEU to the brokie and 2 hexes away. Hex C6 is also 2 hexes distance from the brokie and as such can be ignored as a rout destination, A10.51 EXC as you noted since this releases the broken unit from having to claim C6 as the nearest in MF.
The fact that C6 is 2 hexes from the broken unit means nothing! The fact that it can be reached in 6MF is important, but the distance away in hexes means nothing. What matters for the highlighted text in the OP is that the Broken unit is 2 hexes from the unit in D3 and C6 is 3 hexes from the unit in D3 therefore the unit in D3 does not eliminate C6 as a rout target. There is also a path that the broken unit can take that never requires it to move closer to D3 (if E6 were a pond there is no valid rout path to C6).
 

Eagle4ty

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The fact that C6 is 2 hexes from the broken unit means nothing! The fact that it can be reached in 6MF is important, but the distance away in hexes means nothing. What matters for the highlighted text in the OP is that the Broken unit is 2 hexes from the unit in D3 and C6 is 3 hexes from the unit in D3 therefore the unit in D3 does not eliminate C6 as a rout target. There is also a path that the broken unit can take that never requires it to move closer to D3 (if E6 were a pond there is no valid rout path to C6).
However, the EXC does not require a MF calculation as an ignorable destination: ".... A routing unit may also ignore a building/woods hex if that hex is no farther from a Known enemy unit than its starting hex,...". The HS is two hexes away and C6 is two hexes away, therefore it IS an ignorable destination.
 

DVexile

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First, the HS in D3 is a KEU to the brokie and 2 hexes away. Hex C6 is also 2 hexes distance from the brokie and as such can be ignored as a rout destination, A10.51 EXC as you noted since this releases the broken unit from having to claim C6 as the nearest in MF.

Secondly, The rule does not state the KEU has to be the closest one to the broken unit, nor does the EXC mention the distance to the KEU or the potential rout destination must be counted in MF to be excluded as the final destination (Though the rout path must be so).

Thirdly, the next available rout destinations visible (assuming no other locations not shown are available) is B7 & I believe E9 (if that's a building there), both at 5MF path. This will give the broken unit options as where to rout to/towards as it is possibly subject to interdiction in C7 as it routs to B7.
Imagine a relatively open board. Broken unit has a LOS to a KEU “A” that is two hexes away and LOS to another KEU “B” that is twenty hexes away. The above logic seems to imply the broken unit can ignore every rout location that is within twenty hexes of the closer KEU “A” - in other words it could ignore every routing location and just pick wherever it wants to go.

That doesn’t seem correct. Of course I might be misinterpreting what you are trying to say - apologies if so.
 

Eagle4ty

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Of course there's always a possibility that I could be totally incorrect, but an EXCEPTION is an amendment to the basic rule that specifies an alternative to what has gone/stated before. Where in the EXC does it state anything more than what it says. One could certainly "assume" it means the distance is measured in MF expenditure, but that's not what it says. Of course, with both my position and that of opposing points of view, you know what it means when we assume.

Note: The EXC doesn't state the destination has to be equal to the distance from the KEU to be ignored, only his starting hex for the rout. . "A routing unit may also ignore a building/woods hex if that hex is no farther from a Known enemy unit than its starting hex,"
 
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klasmalmstrom

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The distance is in hexes. See post #9 on which two distances are compared.

I.e., if the rout target doesn’t leave the broken unit farther away from the enemy it can be ignored.
 

klasmalmstrom

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C6 is three hexes from D3. Broken unit is two hexes from D3. Those are the distances compared, not the distance between C6 and the broken unit.

I think this situation is somewhere in the comprehensive rout example.
 

Robin Reeve

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C6 is three hexes from D3. Broken unit is two hexes from D3. Those are the distances compared, not the distance between C6 and the broken unit.
So C6 remains the mandatory rout objective?
 

johnl

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Wait a minute. I am confused. Isn't D4 known to the broken unit? It is 2 hexes from C6 as is the brokie in E5, making C6 ignorable?
 

klasmalmstrom

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Wait a minute. I am confused. Isn't D4 known to the broken unit? It is 2 hexes from C6 as is the brokie in E5, making C6 ignorable?
No. See post 16 to see which distances are compared.

D4 is two hexes from C6. Broken unit is one hex from D4. So C6 takes the broken unit farther away from D4.
 

Eagle4ty

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C6 is three hexes from D3. Broken unit is two hexes from D3. Those are the distances compared, not the distance between C6 and the broken unit.

I think this situation is somewhere in the comprehensive rout example.
Where does it say the rout destination has to be further away than the KEU. It states the the ignorable destination has to be no further away than it starting hex.
 
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