Entrenchment

rasmus

Member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
911
Reaction score
1
Location
Denmark
Country
llDenmark
I am exploiting nothing (yet) as I just found out this afternoon. :D
What I described involved digging in the whole unit after the first recombination, what you described works much better. No more waiting for rail repair, bridge repair or low entrenchement factors. Thanks Kraut you just improved my game a 1000% :love: :D

PS is there a way to check if your opponent is cheating this way or am i home free? :cheeky:
 

Davich

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
42
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
lol...note to self: Never play against rasmus.

Thanks for that update Kraut. I liked it the old way. Kept people from doing unreal things without a penalty.
 

Tue

Recruit
Joined
Aug 18, 2004
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Location
Copenhagen
Country
llDenmark
Thanks all. Where is the entrenchment level of the hex listed? I have poor eyesight so bear with me. :crosseye:
 

Kraut

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
1
Location
Germany
Country
llGermany
Tue said:
Thanks all. Where is the entrenchment level of the hex listed? I have poor eyesight so bear with me. :crosseye:
Place the cursor over a spotted hex and read the text in the info-box at the bottom of the playing field.
 

nemo

-. . -- ---
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
2,084
Reaction score
3
Location
Nowhere to be seen
Country
llFrance
When your mouse is hovering over the map, known entrenchment levels are shown in the bottom info box, as shown in the attached screenshot.
 

Erik Nygaard

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
119
Reaction score
1
Location
Norway
Country
llNorway
Kraut said:
That goes as cheating in my book, same as splitting up an engineer, trying to repair a bridge/RR with 2 of the 3 thirds, reuniting the unit, splitting it up again in thirds, repeat step one. It was certainly not intended that way by TOAW and you are exploiting a bug here.
Are you sure the divided engineers each have the same probability in repairing bridge/RR as the combined unit?
If not, I would not considered it a cheat...
 

Secadegas

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
665
Reaction score
3
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
Country
llPortugal
Erik Nygaard said:
Are you sure the divided engineers each have the same probability in repairing bridge/RR as the combined unit?
If not, I would not considered it a cheat...
No, the chance is lower (less proficiency, fewer engineers squads) so i also don't think is that much cheating...
 

Kraut

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
1
Location
Germany
Country
llGermany
Excample: 1 Eng unit, 60% Engineering ability, 20 movement point.

Divide into 3 sub.units, each sub unit has 20% engineering ability

trying to repair the bridge with subunit 1 & 2, both fail

recombine the unit, split up unit in 3 parts.

again subunit 1 & 2 (each 20% engineering) try to repair the bridge, both fail

recombine unit, split up unit, repeat until the recombined unit has only 1 movement point left, than start a final try with the whole unit and its combined 60% engineering probability.

thats a couple of 20%-attempts and a final attempt with 60% instead of just one 60% attempt.

Still think that's not cheating ?
 

viridomaros

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
1,565
Reaction score
1
Location
liege
Country
llBelgium
i have the feeling that the success also depends on how many mp are left, i cannot give any evidence on this, but it's just a feeling i have, so imo better to try at 60% when full mp left.
 

Kraut

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
1
Location
Germany
Country
llGermany
viridomaros said:
i have the feeling that the success also depends on how many mp are left, i cannot give any evidence on this, but it's just a feeling i have, so imo better to try at 60% when full mp left.
Nope, the remaining movement points have nothing to do with the success propability to repair the rail/bridge. Try it, move a 99% RR repair unit almost to the max. of it's movement allowance, try to repair a RR hex... et voila, you will succeed at 99% propability. The only very minor influence is that your might loose an engineering squad on the way and thereby lower your engineering probability but other that that there is no penalty in using units with almost no MP left.
 

Secadegas

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
665
Reaction score
3
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
Country
llPortugal
Kraut said:
Excample: 1 Eng unit, 60% Engineering ability, 20 movement point.

Divide into 3 sub.units, each sub unit has 20% engineering ability

trying to repair the bridge with subunit 1 & 2, both fail

recombine the unit, split up unit in 3 parts.

again subunit 1 & 2 (each 20% engineering) try to repair the bridge, both fail

recombine unit, split up unit, repeat until the recombined unit has only 1 movement point left, than start a final try with the whole unit and its combined 60% engineering probability.

thats a couple of 20%-attempts and a final attempt with 60% instead of just one 60% attempt.

Still think that's not cheating ?
To be honest... no... just the same as when i "attack/cancel attack and dig-in" a unit that was retreated at the begin of my turn...

I fill a lot more unconfortable when i attack with a small untried 30% proficiency AA unit together with huge artillery support and make my opponent strong brigade retreat with heavy losses... and if i remember some time ago you said that's OK
 

Kraut

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
1
Location
Germany
Country
llGermany
Secadegas said:
To be honest... no... just the same as when i "attack/cancel attack and dig-in" a unit that was retreated at the begin of my turn...

I fill a lot more unconfortable when i attack with a small untried 30% proficiency AA unit together with huge artillery support and make my opponent strong brigade retreat with heavy losses... and if i remember some time ago you said that's OK
Attack/cancel dig-in: I have no problem with that, I thing that there is no reason why a retreated unit shouldn't be able to dig in, retreated means only that the unit had to withdraw in face of a strong attack. If the attack was so violent that the unit was routed or so disorganized through the retreat that it need to reorganize... well, these two conditions exist aswell and they don't allow you to dig in again, no matter what you do! So a retreat is just that, an indication that this unit was forced to leave it's original position. That TOAW denies this unit the ability to dig in again is hard to understand and I would vote for a change in a new patch.

The ground attack + arty is also no problem for me because the damage is done by the shelling and not produced out of thin air! If you attack a division with 2 37mm AA and 1 150mm arty you will get a beating and the attacked unit will probably not even loose supply if your AA broke off after the enemy defensive arty fire. Without heavy arty support you won't be able to inflict any substancial damage, and more arty means more damage, less arty means less damage. Everything is perfectly balanced, you can't increase the effect of the arty by some clever tricks.

In the engineering exaple however you 'produce' engineering capacity out of thin air! If you have a 50% propability to repair a bridge you shouldn't be able to boost this probability to 90% just by confusing the game system with some clever divide/reunite voodoo. There is no logical explanation how a unit should be able to increase its engineering abilities by dooing the things I explained earlier. Therefore you are exploiting an oversight/bug and that's cheating.
 

viridomaros

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
1,565
Reaction score
1
Location
liege
Country
llBelgium
Kraut said:
Nope, the remaining movement points have nothing to do with the success propability to repair the rail/bridge. Try it, move a 99% RR repair unit almost to the max. of it's movement allowance, try to repair a RR hex... et voila, you will succeed at 99% propability. The only very minor influence is that your might loose an engineering squad on the way and thereby lower your engineering probability but other that that there is no penalty in using units with almost no MP left.
well i will try this, but iirc it has an influence
 

Secadegas

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
665
Reaction score
3
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
Country
llPortugal
Kraut said:
Therefore you are exploiting an oversight/bug and that's cheating.
I can accept your position easily. But still can't imagine myself cheating when using the "divide/reunite voodoo". Most of the times i regreat having used it... because most of the times it fails...
 

tigersqn

WWII Forum Staff
Joined
Nov 24, 2002
Messages
800
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
Country
llCanada
viridomaros said:
well i will try this, but iirc it has an influence
I believe it only has an effect in that in long moves, the sub-units lost in transit may make the unit insufficient for the task.
 

Secadegas

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
665
Reaction score
3
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
Country
llPortugal
Sometimes i see mentioned that dig-in/entrenched/fortified status have supply benefits. I realize that units not moving have their re-supply optimized. But i never noticed any supply benefit concerning units entrenched.
Anyone have a clear idea about this?
 
Top