Differences between ASLSK#2 TH Table & ASL C3 TH Table

[JG53_Jaguar]

Ok buys I'm puzzled here, I'm currently learning how to use Guns and Ordnance. I'm reading ASLSK#2 rule book, as well as ASLRBv2 and K Chapter in ASLRBv2. Now I'm looking at "To Hit Example" on page 9 of ASLSK#2 it talks about German 75mm AT gun firing at US MMC at distance of 2 hexes. The example talks about starting with base value of TH 9. I checked ASL C3 table and it shows that the base value is really 8 (For 0-6 hexes = black 8 since we are dealing here with German gun). I now check the "To Hit" table in SK#2 and I see that indeed the ITT for 75mm AT gun at 2 hexes is base value of 9. So my question why the difference between SK and ASL ? Basically SK "To Hit" table shows values for 1 hex = 10, 2 hexes = 9, 3-6 hexes = 8, whereas ASL C3 table shows value for 0-6 = 8. Why is SK "To Hit" table more detailed than ASLRBv2 ?

To me ASLRBv2 is the code of law here...ASLSK is just suppose to help on the way...but it should not really side track me right ?

 

[Sparafucil3]

Ok buys I'm puzzled here, I'm currently learning how to use Guns and Ordnance. I'm reading ASLSK#2 rule book, as well as ASLRBv2 and K Chapter in ASLRBv2. Now I'm looking at "To Hit Example" on page 9 of ASLSK#2 it talks about German 75mm AT gun firing at US MMC at distance of 2 hexes. The example talks about starting with base value of TH 9. I checked ASL C3 table and it shows that the base value is really 8 (For 0-6 hexes = black 8 since we are dealing here with German gun). I now check the "To Hit" table in SK#2 and I see that indeed the ITT for 75mm AT gun at 2 hexes is base value of 9. So my question why the difference between SK and ASL ? Basically SK "To Hit" table shows values for 1 hex = 10, 2 hexes = 9, 3-6 hexes = 8, whereas ASL C3 table shows value for 0-6 = 8. Why is SK "To Hit" table more detailed than ASLRBv2 ?

To me ASLRBv2 is the code of law here...ASLSK is just suppose to help on the way...but it should not really side track me right ?

I have not seen the SK's but I will try an answer. On the ASL TH table the base TH is 8 but there is a -2 DRM for range 1, and a -1 DRM for range 2. This Point Blank modifier only applies to Infantry and stationary Vehicle targets. Sounds like they build those DRMs into the To Hit Table since there are no vehicles and they would always be applicable to Infantry. -- jim

 

[JG53_Jaguar]

I have not seen the SK's but I will try an answer. On the ASL TH table the base TH is 8 but there is a -2 DRM for range 1, and a -1 DRM for range 2. This Point Blank modifier only applies to Infantry and stationary Vehicle targets. Sounds like they build those DRMs into the To Hit Table since there are no vehicles and they would always be applicable to Infantry. -- jim

Hmmmm...no I don't want to type the whole text but the base To Hit value is 9

 

[zgrose]

Yes, ASLSK precalculates Case L for you.

 

[Brian W]

Yes, ASLSK precalculates Case L for you.

I do not have ASLSK, but in ASL Case L does not affect the Base TH#. Case L is a TH DRM, which is a very important distinction when calculating Infantry Target Type CH possibilities.

 

[Sparafucil3]

I do not have ASLSK, but in ASL Case L does not affect the Base TH#. Case L is a TH DRM, which is a very important distinction when calculating Infantry Target Type CH possibilities.

I agree that is very important with respect to ASL. In the case of the SK's it seems to be one of the simplifications offered to ease the introduction. -- jim

 

[Robin Reeve]

IIRC, SK precalculates the CH possibilities too and gives them in the table.

 

[madDdog67]

[Yorkshireman's voice] Bah, that's the trouble with young people today...why, when I was young, WE had to calculate the to hit numbers OURSELVES...none of that poncy pre-calculated stuff for us, no sir![/Yorkshireman's voice] :laugh:

 

[JG53_Jaguar]

Gentlemen,

I don't believe the SK To Hit table pre calculated any DRM or for CH. Ok let me be a bit more specific, looking at the data for TARGET TYPE/RANGE columns 7-12, 13-18 and 19-24 the data (Black & Red values) is the same on the C3 To Hit table in ASL as well as SK To Hit Chart. The difference is that in SK table instead of having 0-6 as a first column it has :1, 2, 3-6 and then goes to 7-12. So basically SK To Hit chart is more detailed, and I wonder why....hopefully this will be clear enough explanation.


Here a small image of the two tables differences

 

[zgrose]

I do not have ASLSK, but in ASL Case L does not affect the Base TH#. Case L is a TH DRM, which is a very important distinction when calculating Infantry Target Type CH possibilities.

Critical Hit numbers are precalculated as well.

(edit) Although they did make the CH numbers different from ASL -> ASLSK. At range 1 and 2 the CH # should be 3, but they are 5 and 4. Perhaps an oversight, perhaps intentional.

 

[zgrose]

The difference is that in SK table instead of having 0-6 as a first column it has :1, 2, 3-6 and then goes to 7-12. So basically SK To Hit chart is more detailed, and I wonder why....hopefully this will be clear enough explanation.

And it doesn't strike you as odd that the difference is +1 at 2 hexes and +2 at 1 hexes. The exact same magnitude as the Case L DRM? AND that the Point Blank Fire DRM wasn't carried over into ASLSK?

Is that a clear enough explanation?

 

[JG53_Jaguar]

And it doesn't strike you as odd that the difference is +1 at 2 hexes and +2 at 1 hexes. The exact same magnitude as the Case L DRM? AND that the Point Blank Fire DRM wasn't carried over into ASLSK?

Is that a clear enough explanation?

Yes you are right...it is the same +2 at distance of 1 hex... + 1 at distance of 2 hexes. So yes it could be that they added the L case in C6 table to the SK2 table. Sorry I missed your post earlier in the thread, I guess this explains it then, thanks

But doesn't L case only applies to moving units ? What about stationary ?

 

[zgrose]

I think you have that reversed. Case L doesn't apply to Motion/Non-Stopped vehicles.

 

[Larry]

We will have to wait and see how SK3 deals with vehicles. They may have to resort to a full blown TH table. However,

Although they did make the CH numbers different from ASL -> ASLSK. At range 1 and 2 the CH # should be 3, but they are 5 and 4. Perhaps an oversight, perhaps intentional.

Actually, the numbers are right. A basic TH of 8 means a final DR of 3 is a CH. At pointblank range, the gun gets a -2. An original 5 yields a final DR of 3, which is a CH. Therefore, when the SK table says that the firer gets a CH at an adjacent target on an original 5, the table is correct. It just didn't explain the why ... at all.

 

[zgrose]

Whew, I knew I shouldn't have second guessed myself. First couple times I looked at it I said it was right, and then I said to myself it was screwy.