Concealment optional rule

[M.Netto]

In this weekend we began playing our first scenario with dummy units: The Tractor Works. One thing I noticed, when having to deal with 18 concealment counters in the factory is how difficult it was to manipulate them. I even tried some skulking in the first turn, but it was really awkward to assault move to a big overstacked hex full of dummies and then advance back to the edge of the factory. My opponent had to leave the room for me to deal with those stacks.

Chapter A footnote 18 brings an alternative rule that allows players to just keep the concealment counter on the board and secretly record the contents of each such "?". Do people use this alternative dynamics? What are the downsides to it?

 

[Jazz]

The downside is pain in the ass book keeping. Keeping multiple stacks of concealment counters straight on paper is just asking for trouble IMMHO. I have never played with it and do not anticipate ever using it.

 

[apbills]

When manipulating large stacks I have found it is best to do the following:

Expand the stack.
If you are moving concealed units out from other concealed units, clone the top concealment counter.
Shift Select the new concealment counter and each of the units you want to move out of the hex.
Select the bottom counter of the counters you have previously selected for movement.
Drag and Drop the selected counters.

This should grab just the selected counters from the large stack and move them, remaining concealed, into the new hex.

When moving a stack into a large stack, the moving units will remain on top. Top move them to the position you want, you can move each of the real units to the position you want with the down and left arrow keys. The down key will put the unit on the bottom, the left key will move it down one position in the stack. The right key moves it up one position and the up key moves it to the top. Do NOT move the top concealment counter until you have the real units where you want them.

Now you can move that top concealment counter (which could be above another concealment counter) to the position above the newly moved units using the arrow keys as before. If there is no additional concealment counter in the hex, you need to use the left arrow key to move it down one position at a time until it is just above your real concealed units so that the concealed units are not exposed. If they are all dummy concealment counters it will not matter since they have nothing to expose.

Expanding the stack and using the arrow keys is the best way to manipulate stacks. If you use the mouse you will be sadly disappointed with the results since that movement is considered by VASSAL as a move of the counters, not a readjustment of a stack, even if you are only moving in the same hex. It will then redo the stack on its own which can have various results that you do not want.

I will also add that if you have a stack of dummies and real units in a hex due to all the skulking or whatever moves you have made, I prefer to place the dummies on the bottom. It makes it easier to move them out without causing loss of concealment to the real units, never do anything to that concealment counter directly above the real units without clearly understanding what you are doing.

EDIT: Another tip, if you want to move part of your counters from a large stack into the hex to the upper right of your current hex (direction 2), never move them directly there when your stack is expanded. First move them into an empty hex somewhere to the left, then collapse you stack, and then grab your moved units and place them into the hex you wanted them moved to. If you try to move into a hex where the current stack has expanded into VASSAL can believe you are just moving within that stack instead of realizing you are trying to move to a new hex.

 

[Paul John]

I agree with Jazz. Night uses cloaking rules which require this record keeping and therefore I only play night on VASL where it isn't necessary. (VASL helps for night in other ways too.) You slowly get used to moving the pieces better, but some scenarios with high
density are annoying for this reason.

 

[Paul John]

@apbills He is playing FtF, hence the challenges of fat fingers.

 

[apbills]

@apbills He is playing FtF, hence the challenges of fat fingers.

Ah, I am focused so much on VASL these days I forget about the challenges of ftf play.

 

[Robin Reeve]

My opponent had to leave the room for me to deal with those stacks.

When you want your opponent not see what you are manipulating, make the counters hidden, manipulate them, then un-hide them.
It won't force him to go out of the VASL room.
This also works when you set up units offboard.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Chapter A footnote 18 brings an alternative rule that allows players to just keep the concealment counter on the board and secretly record the contents of each such "?". Do people use this alternative dynamics? What are the downsides to it?

That option increases the concealment stacks, as you only need one concealment counter per stack.
I would divide the given number of concealment counters by two or three to use that optional rule.

 

[M.Netto]

I'm playing FtF. Sorry for not having made it clear.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I'm playing FtF. Sorry for not having made it clear.

Your opponent doesn't have to leave the room, then.
They simply can turn away or go sit in an armchair elsewhere.

 

[Vinnie]

I've sort of used this playing very counter dense scenarios.
Got some big counters marked A B C etc.
Placed them on board with their stacks, concealed, nearby. This allowed the opponent to have more of an idea of what was there while reducing the "fat fingers" effect.

 

[M.Netto]

Your opponent doesn't have to leave the room, then.
They simply can turn away or go sit in an armchair elsewhere.

He preferred to leave. I was a little slow sorting through all those dummy counters and trying not to loose track of who had already moved onto whom. I guess I'll get better at it after a couple of scenarios. But I noticed there must be a lot of trust involved when manipulating concealed stacks, mainly on your opponent knowledge of rules, and vice-versa.

 

[Robin Reeve]

He preferred to leave.

All for the better, then.
As you wrote he "had to leave", I thought that you saw it as an obligation.

 

[Vinnie]

If I'm just going to skulking, I'll often say "this guys skulking back then advancing, do you want me to move him?"

 

[clubby]

I'm playing FtF. Sorry for not having made it clear.

Get yourself a good pair of 6 inch curved tip tweezers with the serrated jaws and learn how to use them.

 

[ibncalb]

If you can, print out the map you're playing on and blow up/expand the map to make larger hexes.

Secondly, the moment you touch a concealed stack, your opponent should be looking away. To do otherwise is not gentlemanly.

Thirdly, you do not have to pick up a stack and physically move it. I indicate a stack, by pointing with a pencil* normally, and describe the route taken by pointing with said pencil and saying "bypass here 1 MF, building three MF, stop here. Any shots?"

(*If i'm playing solo I use a laser pointer to tempt my cat to join in)

 

[Actionjick]

Just play DASL, Streets of Fire. Plenty of room. I reccomend Guryev's Headquarters.

 

[M.Netto]

Get yourself a good pair of 6 inch curved tip tweezers with the serrated jaws and learn how to use them.

Already have them. Without them, it would be impossible to grab those stacks in inner building hexes. It is my first module and I had no idea the counters where so tiny. A real test on visual acuity and manual dexterity. But at least it saves table space.

 

[EJ1]

Already have them. Without them, it would be impossible to grab those stacks in inner building hexes . . .

Hi, Netto.

Also, add a wad of blue, sticky artist tack to the non-working end of your tweezers. Works great for picking up counters, such as the top counters off stacks.

Cheers,