Clearing Minefields...

Dagney

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Hi all,

A dumb question to clarify mine clearance...

Situation - the Defender has placed a Known AP minefield in a Grain hex. The Attacker has a Sapper who wishes to clear the minefield.

My reading of B24.74 is that any unit, including a Sapper, must be in the minefield location to attempt to clear it. So it first must blunder into the Known minefield, undergo an attack and only then can the survivors (if any) use their fancy mine detecting/lifting equipment...

Is my understanding correct, or is there a rule hidden somewhere that allows a Sapper to start detecting/clearing the minefield before they step into the middle of it?

Cheers

Dagney
 

von Marwitz

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If people read the question and still wonder about the answer, here it is:

B24.74 MINEFIELD: Unpinned, Good Order Infantry in a minefield Location (but not on top of a Wire counter) which has not fired (or directed fire) during that Player Turn and becomes TI during its MPh in an attempt to clear mines may clear a lane through a minefield with a successful Clearance DR at the end of its Player Turn's CCPh. However, any Original Minefield DR of 12 (11 or 12 if Inexperienced) results in Casualty Reduction vs the clearing unit(s). If successful, the minefield hex is marked with a TB counter across any two hexsides of the ATTACKER's choice (28.61). If every hexside of the minefield hex is crossed by a TB, the mines and TB are removed. Good Order Infantry may enter a Known minefield hex free of minefield attack by placing a partial TB, provided they expend their entire MF allotment to do so, become TI, and attempt to clear the minefield at the end of their CCPh. Unless the minefield is cleared, these units may exit the minefield free of minefield attack only by the hexside through which they entered. No other units may use the partial TB. The partial TB counter is removed if they are eliminated or exit the hex. See also 28.62-.8.

von Marwitz
 

Vinnie

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This can be useful to do, even if you are not really wanting to vlearva minefield if you want to DM an enemy unit or prevent him routing through an adjacent hex.
 

Paul John

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And the fun exception I had a bit ago. If the mines are in a hex with a multihex building, once you are in, failing the TC is fairly irrelevant as you can move through the interior of the building freely. Sometimes good enough.
 

Stewart

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And the fun exception I had a bit ago. If the mines are in a hex with a multihex building, once you are in, failing the TC is fairly irrelevant as you can move through the interior of the building freely. Sometimes good enough.
You can't go forward into the building from the minefield without being attacked if that is what you mean/
 

Paul John

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Enter the hex using clearance. Once in the hex, exit via a building hexside.
Are you suggesting one would still be attacked leaving in this way? B28.44 suggests
success of clearance not relevant.
 

tommyl

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B24.74 states "Unless the minefield is cleared, these units may exit the minefield free of minefield attack only by the hexside through which they entered." Given that B28.44 is a higher numbered rule, maybe that takes precedence.
Guess you could rationalize that the unit cleared up to the building safely......
 

klasmalmstrom

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Q&A.

B24.74 & B28.44 Can Infantry which has declared a Clearance attempt and entered a
Minefield via a partial TB, but which fail to clear the Minefield, later leave the Minefield hex via a
non-TB building hexside without being attacked by the Minefield?
A. No. [An96]
 

dwardzala

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Q&A.

B24.74 & B28.44 Can Infantry which has declared a Clearance attempt and entered a
Minefield via a partial TB, but which fail to clear the Minefield, later leave the Minefield hex via a
non-TB building hexside without being attacked by the Minefield?
A. No. [An96]
That Q&A makes no sense. Is the infantry not considered in the building because of the clearance attempt?
 

Paul John

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That Q&A makes no sense.
I agree. I have always assumed normal TEM applies, so that would imply that they are in the building.
Maybe that is wrong?
How about going upstairs? Can't imagine that would cause an attack according to a strict reading of the rules, as the unit isn't leaving the hex. But then leaving the hex at level one would cause an attack by that rule?
Probably intent is that going up also sparks an attack, but with this interpretation the units shouldn't be getting TEM imo.
 

dwardzala

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I believe that the question was mis-read and it might be worth resubmitting. It could easily have been interpreted as non-building hexside instead of non-TB building hexside.
 

Paul John

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Yah, the Q&A has no mention of buildings, so maybe wasn't considered.
How does this sound?

B24.74 & B28.44 redux: If a unit enters a hex with a minefield and one hex of a multi-hex building using the clearance rules to place a partial TB, and either before the clearance roll or after it fails to clear the minefield, is it considered in the building (for TEM purposes, etc.)?
If yes, can it exit the hex via a building hexside without being attacked by mines? Can it use a stairwell in the building location without being attacked by mines?
If no, any difference?

Edits/comments appreciated before sending to Perry.
 

Robin Reeve

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What if the building has a 1st level?
Moving upstairs is not crossing a hexside. 😏
 

Paul John

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What if the building has a 1st level?
Moving upstairs is not crossing a hexside. 😏
Edited. Therein begins the madness. I personally am hoping that one can go upstairs without issue, but leaving the hex at the upper level triggers a minefield attack! o_O
 
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