Chess personality

kcdusk

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
636
Reaction score
14
Location
Australia
Country
llAustralia
There are literally hundreds of thousands of openings. I've studied the first 8 or 10 moves of three of them. This is a waste of time.

I know what my chess "personality" is when i play as white or black. How do i translate my chess characterisitcs into what opening would suit me best, so i can spend what time i have looking at my best fit openings rather than just a popular opening or two that dont suit my style?

Is there like a test i can take, answer a heap of questions (like a psyc test) and at the end it says "opening X and Y suit you as white, and openings L and M suit you when playing black"?

And if this test doesnt exist, why not, and whose now doing something about it???
 

Scott Tortorice

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
7,663
Reaction score
99
Location
The shadows
Country
llUnited States
Yay...a chess posting I didn't start! :D

Take it from me, the best way to find an opening you like is to just shoot from the hip. Just play what seems logical to you, and afterward, examine the results. If you won, great! Find out what opening you played (if you aren't already sure of the exact variation) and analyze why it worked. If you lost, again, examine the game and see what went wrong. Was the opening at fault, or was it something else?

I used to spend a lot of time going with popular openings and slavishly repeating all the 'right' moves. Ultimately, it didn't do me a bit of good. It wasn't until I said "screw it! I'm gonna just make it up as I go along" that I started to really learn. When left to my own devices, I noticed that I felt most comfortable going with certain opening moves. With that knowledge in hand, I then worked backwards and tried to classify the variation and understand what I did versus what the pros did. Then I finally started to learn an opening repertoire. But even now, I don't stick with any one opening. I just play what I want and take it from there.

Point is: don't pick an opening, let the opening pick you. :)
 

peterk1

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
36
Location
Montreal, Canada
Country
llCanada
Yeah but guys....
50% of the time you're not in charge. You should be familiar with the openings, if only to be able to defend/refute them as black. Not doing so is going to lose a lot of games out of the gate (in possibly humiliating fashion) depending on who you play and what their style is. Or at best, you'll get into time trouble because you're analyzing too much in the first 10 moves.
 

kcdusk

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
636
Reaction score
14
Location
Australia
Country
llAustralia
Ha! And a couple of other games i reckon. Good to see someone new in the chess section.
 

peterk1

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
36
Location
Montreal, Canada
Country
llCanada
It's nice to be playing again. I never should have stopped. I had a couple of really unpleasant experiences at face to face tournaments with sore losers and cheaters that turned me off the game way back when.

Regarding not wanting to spend much time on the openings. I'm reading a book by Serawein right now and right at the end he puts forth a system where you can just play the same 4 moves (fianchetto and castle on the King side) in every game as black and as white no matter what the other player does. You might want to fool around with that idea.
 

Scott Tortorice

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
7,663
Reaction score
99
Location
The shadows
Country
llUnited States
Yeah but guys....
50% of the time you're not in charge. You should be familiar with the openings, if only to be able to defend/refute them as black. Not doing so is going to lose a lot of games out of the gate (in possibly humiliating fashion) depending on who you play and what their style is. Or at best, you'll get into time trouble because you're analyzing too much in the first 10 moves.
First: Welcome back to Chess! Glad to see you around here! :broccoli::banana::bandrum::redapple::vegguitar::devil:
Do you have an account with Chess.com yet? We run our tourneys through them, so I would recommend joining since we all have accounts there. There is a free membership option, so no worries there. If you join, let me know and I'll challenge you to a friendly game.


Second, that is a good point! As I am only a casual CC player, I am content to wing it when it comes to a new opening being used against me, but I can see how lack of opening preparation in a tourney could spell t-r-o-u-b-l-e. :D
 

Scott Tortorice

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
7,663
Reaction score
99
Location
The shadows
Country
llUnited States
Just found a new book that might be worth reading:

The Greatest Ever Chess Opening Ideas by Christoph Scheerer

Put three chess players in a room, and you’re bound to have at least four opinions and at least five arguments… More than anything else (other than an easy mate) players love a good, er, discussion.

From pawnpusher to grandmaster, devotees of the Royal Game should take a look at Christoph Scheerer’s The Greatest Ever Chess Opening Ideas. There’s a whole lot to love there – and if it doesn’t keep everyone thinking and talking, chances are they’re already gone over to online poker, anyway.​
 

peterk1

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
36
Location
Montreal, Canada
Country
llCanada
Just thought I'd send this along since it seems to be on topic. THIS is what happens when you don't practice your openings!

I'm still doing my 20 Chessmaster qualifying games, working my way down the opponent list, trying to find the sweet spot where games are competitive and am playing a personality who was listed as "ignoring his pawns". Well, he didn't ignore them at all - they won the game for him.

I'm still a little shocked by this loss. 14 moves....8 of them are in the opening book. It's a boring old Piano that I've played tons of times, just played it a little differently than usual this time around. In the database, Black had decent if not great odds upon exiting the opening. Fritz only finds one of my moves onto which to attach the "?". And it was one of the worst losses I've ever had. Never thought that an opponent who is ignoring his pawns would advance them so aggressively - I was banking on getting a tempo every now and then to straighten things out, but it never happened.

Great example of the "control the center" principle.
 
Last edited:

Lurker

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
1,526
Reaction score
0
Location
Clearwater, Florida
There are literally hundreds of thousands of openings. I've studied the first 8 or 10 moves of three of them. This is a waste of time.

I know what my chess "personality" is when i play as white or black. How do i translate my chess characterisitcs into what opening would suit me best, so i can spend what time i have looking at my best fit openings rather than just a popular opening or two that dont suit my style?

Is there like a test i can take, answer a heap of questions (like a psyc test) and at the end it says "opening X and Y suit you as white, and openings L and M suit you when playing black"?

And if this test doesnt exist, why not, and whose now doing something about it???
I should check the board more often! I personally wouldn't take any kind of psych test as being valid. The best is way of determining your opening of choice, in my opinion, is to play a lot of different ones and decide which one 'feels' best to you and that you have fun working with.

Many years ago I learned much by picking up a copy of Edward Lasker's 'Chess Strategy' and working through it. He gives a good basic understanding on various openings and what they are trying to do. He also covers virtually all aspects of the game. My next book was 'My System' by Aron Nimzowitsch - my chess hero! That one gets very interesting. Some masters here and there would recommend staying away from Nimzowitsch if you are learning; claiming his ideas are hard to grasp. I chose to ignore those warnings.

Over all I'd say to mess around with different openings and styles and see what fits you best. And while you are doing that take little heed of those who are critical of your opening choices and instead recommend ones that are more "in fashion or popular".
 

Scott Tortorice

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
7,663
Reaction score
99
Location
The shadows
Country
llUnited States
Just thought I'd send this along since it seems to be on topic. THIS is what happens when you don't practice your openings!

I'm still doing my 20 Chessmaster qualifying games, working my way down the opponent list, trying to find the sweet spot where games are competitive and am playing a personality who was listed as "ignoring his pawns". Well, he didn't ignore them at all - they won the game for him.

I'm still a little shocked by this loss. 14 moves....8 of them are in the opening book. It's a boring old Piano that I've played tons of times, just played it a little differently than usual this time around. In the database, Black had decent if not great odds upon exiting the opening. Fritz only finds one of my moves onto which to attach the "?". And it was one of the worst losses I've ever had. Never thought that an opponent who is ignoring his pawns would advance them so aggressively - I was banking on getting a tempo every now and then to straighten things out, but it never happened.

Great example of the "control the center" principle.
Wow, never seen a chess PDF before. :) That was cool.

I think where you went wrong was by playing [FONT=&quot]Giuoco Piano. :laugh: I never cared for that opening, especially as Black. It always seemed too passive/symmetrical for me. It's like just waiting for White to pounce.

I put your game through CMXI, and it was a bit more critical than Fritz.

White Black
Book Move 8 7
Leave Book 0 1
CMX Agrees 7 2
CMX Disagrees 2 7
Agreement Pct. 78% 22%
Total Error 5.37 21.33
Relevant Error 0.00 1.35
Missed Mate 0 0
Moved Into Mate 0 1

1.e4
{B00 King's Pawn Opening. The King's Pawn opening move is both popular and logical. It controls the center, opens lines for both the Queen and the Bishop, and usually leads to an open game in which tactics, rather than slow maneuvering, predominates.}

1...e5
{C20 King's Pawn Game. Black responds symmetrically, making a direct challenge to the central squares.}

2.Nf3
{C40 King's Knight Opening. With the possible exception of :2. f4, this is the most logical second move against Black's symmetrical answer to the King's Pawn. The Knight attacks e5, clears the way for an eventual castle and rests on its best defensive square.}

2...Nc6
{C44 Queen's Knight Variation. Now, when White plays 3.Nc3 (instead of the Ruy Lopez), it's the Three Knight's Game; a leisurely system.}

3.Bc4
{C44 Queen's Knight Variation.}

3...Bc5
{C50 Italian Game.}

4.c3
{C53 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano. This preparatory move for d4 defines the time-honored Giuoco Piano, literally, 'quiet play.'}

4...Nf6
{C53 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Italian Game 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6.}

5.d4
{C53 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Italian Game 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4.}

5...exd4
{C54 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Greco's Attack.}

6.cxd4
{C54 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Italian Game 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4.}

6...Bb6
{C54 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Italian Game 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4.}

7.d5
{C54 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Italian Game 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4.}

7...Ne7
{C54 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Italian Game 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4.}

8.e5
{C54 Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Italian Game 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4.}

8...Nfg8
{Out of Opening Book. Ng4 would have been in the Italian Game / Giuoco Piano / Italian Game 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 book opening. Slightly better is Ng4.}

9.O-O c6
{Leads to 10.d6 Nf5 11.Qd3 Nfh6 12.Nc3 Kf8 13.Bd2 Ba5 14.Rac1 b5 15.Bg5 bxc4 16.Bxd8 cxd3 17.Bxa5, which wins a queen and a bishop for a queen and a bishop. Better is d6, leading to 10.Nc3 Bg4 11.h3 Bf5 12.g4 Bg6 13.Qa4+ c6 14.dxc6 bxc6 15.Bf4, which wins a pawn for a pawn. This error did not immediately put black out of the game, but white was able to eventually mate.}

I agree with Fritz/CM. This probably was the dooming mistake as it allowed White to really hem you in.

10.d6
{Attacks Black's knight at e7.}

10...Ng6
{Slightly better is Nd5.}

11.Qb3 Nh6
{Enables the short castle.}

12.Bg5
{Attacks Black's queen.}

12...f6
{Leads to 13.exf6 Qxf6 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Nc3 Kf8 16.Ne4 Bd8 17.Nd4 b5 18.Qh3 Ng8 19.Be2 Nf4, which wins a bishop and a pawn for a queen and a pawn. Better is Bxf2+, leading to 13.Rxf2 Qb6 14.Nc3 Qxb3 15.Bxb3 Ng4 16.Re2 b6 17.Re4 Nh6 18.Rae1 Ba6 19.Ra4, which wins a queen and a pawn for a queen and a bishop.} --> CM did come up with a clever solution here. Even though it loses material, it manages to wrest back the initiative for black.

13.Bxh6
{Frees Black's pawn at f6 from the pin. Leads to 13...gxh6 14.Bg8 Rxg8 15.Qxg8+ Nf8 16.Qg7 f5 17.Nc3 a6 18.Qxh6 Kf7 19.Qh5+ Kg8 20.Qxf5 Ne6 21.Rad1, which wins a rook, a knight, and two pawns for two bishops. Better is exf6, leading to 13...Qxf6 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Nc3 Kf8 16.Ne4 Bd8 17.Nd4 b5 18.Qh3 Ng8 19.Be2 Nf4, which wins a queen and a pawn for a bishop and a pawn.}

13...Nxe5
{Danger! Leads to 14.Bxg7 Bc5 15.Bf7+ Nxf7 16.Re1+ Ne5 17.Nxe5 Qe7 18.dxe7 fxe5 19.Bxh8 d5 20.Bxe5 Bxe7 21.Qf3, which wins a bishop, a knight, and two pawns for a queen, a rook, a knight, and two pawns. Much better is gxh6, leading to 14.Bg8 Rxg8 15.Qxg8+ Nf8 16.Qg7 f5 17.Nc3 a6 18.Qxh6 Kf7 19.Qh5+ Kg8 20.Qxf5 Ne6 21.Rad1, which wins two bishops for a rook and two pawns.}

14.Nxe5
{Pins own pawn at f2. Leads to 14...fxe5 15.Bxg7 Rf8 16.Qg3 Rf5 17.Bh6 Qe7 18.dxe7 d5 19.Bd3, which wins a queen, a knight, and a pawn for a knight. Better is Bxg7, leading to 14...Bc5 15.Bf7+ Nxf7 16.Re1+ Ne5 17.Nxe5 Qe7 18.dxe7 fxe5 19.Bxh8 d5 20.Bxe5 Bxe7 21.Qf3, which wins a queen, a rook, a knight, and two pawns for a bishop, a knight, and a pawn.}

14...gxh6
{Danger! Isolates own pawn at h7, own pawn at f6, and own pawn at h6. Leads to 15.Re1 Qe7 16.Bf7+ Kd8 17.dxe7+ Kc7 18.Bg8 fxe5 19.e8=Q Bd4 20.Rxe5 b5 21.Re7 Rb8. Much better is fxe5, leading to 15.Bxg7 Rf8 16.Qg3 Rf5 17.Bh6 Qe7 18.dxe7 d5 19.Bd3, which gains a queen and loses a bishop and a pawn in comparison.}

15.Qf3
{Frees the pin on White's pawn at f2.}

15...Rf8
{Black moves into a forced mate. Much better is Qe7. Rf8 leads to 16.Qh5+ Rf7 17.Qxf7# and checkmate.}

16.Qh5+
{White will mate next turn. Protects White's knight at e5, forks Black's pawn at h6 and Black's king, and blocks Black's pawn at h6. Leads to 16...Rf7 17.Qxf7# and checkmate.}

16...Rf7
{Forced. Removes the threat on Black's king and threatens White's knight at e5.}

17.Qxf7#

1-0

Don't worry about this, though. I think this is just the killer side of CM coming out regardless of its personality description. It's done this to me, too.
[/FONT]
 

peterk1

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
36
Location
Montreal, Canada
Country
llCanada
Oh, the first mistake was just letting those two big fat white pawns waltz right down the middle and taking away my natural first posts for the knights. Won't happen again!

I'm still wavering between which analysis I want saved in my database. I've been saving the Fritz ones, but I really love that little scorecard that CM sticks in at the beginning that lets you see at a glance how blunder filled or clean a game was. And I think if you print a CM analysis it sticks in the diagrams by itself. Fritz makes you add them in manually.

My record is now 0-11 with one draw in twelve games but I'm getting close to the opponents who are around the ELO I was at 10 years ago. I feel like a punching -bag :)
 

peterk1

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
36
Location
Montreal, Canada
Country
llCanada
Must've worked. :)
I absolutely clobbered CM tonight against an opponent (Mateo) I always had a really, really hard time against back when I was playing seriously.
Weird, I saw everything he was trying 2 moves in advance and had a beautiful attack up the middle that had him terrified. Payback for that game in the PDF!
 
Top