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tl;dr
Barbed Wire movement and fire question please
- Thread starter JoeArthur
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von Marwitz
Forum Guru
tfluk;chut
ReggieRed
Member
Bringing back this quasi-zombie thread (only dead for < 18 months 
) because a very similar situation happened in our VASL game tonight and I don't think we saw a definitive answer above. Squad with 4 MF trying to AM and enters a wire hex in OG. One MF to enter the hex and then rolls a 2 so it would be an AM to go beneath the wire for a total of 3 MF (per the previous discussion, B26.4 states "The DEFENDER is entitled to see the Wire Exit dr before declaring any First Fire against the unit.") Defender shoots and says "I am shooting at the first MF expended" and pins the unit. The question is then is the unit pinned on top of the wire or underneath it? We decided that since the defender took the "opportunity" (my word) to see the Wire Exit dr (it says that the defender is "entitled" to see it which makes it sound like a choice, not a requirement), the movement beneath the wire was an AM and the pinning takes place under the wire. So, there could be a choice by the defender...A) see the Wire Exit dr and have the potential for the move to become a non-AM and get the extra -1 FFNAM since it's taking place in OG but, assuming the unit has enough to go beneath the wire, then any result (pin, break, etc.) would occur with the under the wire, or B) not wait and see the Wire Exit dr, shoot on the 1st MF to enter the OG hex with the -1 FFMO and hope to effect the unit above the wire. It seemed odd to us that the Defender could wait to see what the Wire Exit dr was, and then essentially force the unit back onto the wire if a result is obtained if declaring the shot happened while the squad was still on the wire on the first MF. Thoughts?
) because a very similar situation happened in our VASL game tonight and I don't think we saw a definitive answer above. Squad with 4 MF trying to AM and enters a wire hex in OG. One MF to enter the hex and then rolls a 2 so it would be an AM to go beneath the wire for a total of 3 MF (per the previous discussion, B26.4 states "The DEFENDER is entitled to see the Wire Exit dr before declaring any First Fire against the unit.") Defender shoots and says "I am shooting at the first MF expended" and pins the unit. The question is then is the unit pinned on top of the wire or underneath it? We decided that since the defender took the "opportunity" (my word) to see the Wire Exit dr (it says that the defender is "entitled" to see it which makes it sound like a choice, not a requirement), the movement beneath the wire was an AM and the pinning takes place under the wire. So, there could be a choice by the defender...A) see the Wire Exit dr and have the potential for the move to become a non-AM and get the extra -1 FFNAM since it's taking place in OG but, assuming the unit has enough to go beneath the wire, then any result (pin, break, etc.) would occur with the under the wire, or B) not wait and see the Wire Exit dr, shoot on the 1st MF to enter the OG hex with the -1 FFMO and hope to effect the unit above the wire. It seemed odd to us that the Defender could wait to see what the Wire Exit dr was, and then essentially force the unit back onto the wire if a result is obtained if declaring the shot happened while the squad was still on the wire on the first MF. Thoughts?
EagleIV
Elder Member
I agree, if you wait to see the Wire dr, the unit will be under the Wire assuming they have enough MF. The advantage is that the unit may no longer be using AM.
Vinnie
See Dummies in the index
When the situation happened for us recently, that was the conclusion we came to as well.
ScottRomanowski
Forum Guru
I agree with @EagleIV and @Vinnie . The MF are not expended simultaneously; the DEFENDER has to choose whether or not to fire at the 1 MF spent to enter the hex before the moving unit expends other MF. The decision to wait until after seeing the Wire Exit dr before deciding whether to fire or not is only a choice whether to fire at the MF spent for the Wire Exit attempt or not.
What if the unit spent 1 MF to enter the Wire Location (above the wire), 1 MF to place Smoke in its Location and succeeds, and then tried to move beneath the Wire counter? The DEFENDER couldn't obviously back up the move and fire before the Smoke Grenade was placed.
What if the unit spent 1 MF to enter the Wire Location (above the wire), 1 MF to place Smoke in its Location and succeeds, and then tried to move beneath the Wire counter? The DEFENDER couldn't obviously back up the move and fire before the Smoke Grenade was placed.
ReggieRed
Member
Thanks for the feedback guys!