ASL 10 The Citadel Rules Questions

GeoffC

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
61
Reaction score
1
Location
Altadena, CA
Country
llUnited States
Howdy All,

I'm a beginning/intermediate ASL'er getting ready to play
"The Citadel" at the So Cal ASL Club's Burning Wreck BBQ
next week.

I have a couple of rules questions I wanted to get some opinions
on before doing my set up ahead of time.

I'm the Russians.

So here's the questions:

1 - Is there an LOS from a building Level 1 location
into the canal? (An SSR lets the Germans move into
the canal. Also another SSR makes all buildings Level 1
(except the VC building which is nowhere near the
canal)). For example, is there an LOS from a unit in
hex 23D4 at Level 1 into canal hex 23D2?

My reading of the rules say yes, but I am not sure.

2 - I get armored cupolas which by the SSR have
"... a MA consisting of a Russian HMG with 6 FP, a ROF
of 3 ...". My questions regarding these are:

2a. Can these lay down firelanes?
2b. Do these get Subsequent First Fire (as Sustained
Fire if they do, right?).

3 - The SSR for Germans entering the canal says
"The canal may be crossed (in the MPh only) by German
infantry ... by expending _all_ [emphasis original] of
their MF to enter the canal from any adjacent hex"
Question here is, could a German unit go over a wall
into the canal, for example from hex 23L5 into hex
23L6? My thinking is no because it would not have _all_
of its MF available to go into the canal, having spent
one MF to go over the wall.

Thanks for any help!

Geoff

PS: I'll be sending a link to this topic to my opponent
so we'll both be aware of what's going on - not doing
any secret research here! :)
 

SamB

Shut up and play!
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
6,792
Reaction score
378
Location
Seattle, Washington,
Country
llUnited States
2 - I get armored cupolas which by the SSR have
"... a MA consisting of a Russian HMG with 6 FP, a ROF
of 3 ...". My questions regarding these are:

2a. Can these lay down firelanes?
2b. Do these get Subsequent First Fire (as Sustained
Fire if they do, right?).
2a - yes, they can lay firelanes. There is a Q&A on this, and a change was made to the V2 rule book to specifically allow this. (See D9.54 referencing dug-in tanks - "A Dug-In AFV has a vehicular (not Infantry) crew (and therefore, unlike other Armored Cupolas, cannot place a Fire Lane),"

3 - The SSR for Germans entering the canal says
"The canal may be crossed (in the MPh only) by German
infantry ... by expending _all_ [emphasis original] of
their MF to enter the canal from any adjacent hex"
Question here is, could a German unit go over a wall
into the canal, for example from hex 23L5 into hex
23L6? My thinking is no because it would not have _all_
of its MF available to go into the canal, having spent
one MF to go over the wall.
I believe they CAN go over the wall and enter the canal. This is similar in practice to a tank spending 'ALL' of it's MPs to enter the woods - but it actually spent a start MP and entered... But I can't prove that by a strick reading of the rules.

You didn't ask, but another common question is about the setup restrictions. "set up on board 23 anywhere south of the canal and/or anywhere within four hexes of BB5:" You understand that you can setup anywhere south of the canal - not south of the canal AND within four hexes of BB5?

Nice scenairo.

 

GeoffC

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
61
Reaction score
1
Location
Altadena, CA
Country
llUnited States
Hi Sam,

Thanks for the answers!

Your pointing out the "inherent Infantry crew" made everything regarding
the HMG cupolas clear.

The one about the moving into a canal made me think of looking
up Marshes which led me to A4.134 Minimum Move - sounds like it would
be a Minimum Move - "... If the entry cost of a hex is defined as 'all' of
a unit's MF and there is still yet another cost beyond that, a Minimum
Move can still be made."

I'm still a little torn about the LOS into the canal question but example
for A21.21 seems to make it clear that there would be an LOS.

Lastly - thanks for the tip about the German setup. I have the version
from Beyond Valor 3rd edition which has the clarification regarding the
setup. I just emailed my opponent to make sure he has that (or the
clarification too).

Geoff
 

GeoffC

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
61
Reaction score
1
Location
Altadena, CA
Country
llUnited States
Russians.

My opponent (Mike) will be reading this, so if you want,
p-message it to me.

Or just post it - I think I'll do a setup then look at yours
if you do. That way others can see it.

Mike! No reading the setup! :)

Geoff
 

SamB

Shut up and play!
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
6,792
Reaction score
378
Location
Seattle, Washington,
Country
llUnited States
Here's my (public) comments about setup for this scenario. First, it should be obvious that the Russians have to attack and take the "church" (VC) building in order to win. Second, the Russians are severely limited in how many MMC they can move each turn. With that in mind...

1. Setup the armored cupolas and at least some of the fortifications with a Line of Sight to the "Church" building. This guarantees that they can't be "bypassed" by the battle. They can be used to help TAKE the VC building, and will still be there to help DEFEND the VC building.

2. If the Russian sets up carefully, he can see every location in the VC buildng. This means that the Germans in the building will not be able to grow concealment. This is key to the Russians taking the building.
 

fleetB17

Infantry PSG
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
120
Reaction score
1
Location
Eau Claire, WI
Country
llUnited States
1 - Is there an LOS from a building Level 1 location
into the canal? (An SSR lets the Germans move into
the canal. Also another SSR makes all buildings Level 1
(except the VC building which is nowhere near the
canal)). For example, is there an LOS from a unit in
hex 23D4 at Level 1 into canal hex 23D2?

My reading of the rules say yes, but I am not sure.
Remember to check the month. I believe orchards are in season and anyone at level 1 will have blind hexs. 24F1 is out of LOS from the 24F3 building at level 1.
 

SamB

Shut up and play!
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
6,792
Reaction score
378
Location
Seattle, Washington,
Country
llUnited States
Here's my (public) comments about setup for this scenario. First, it should be obvious that the Russians have to attack and take the "church" (VC) building in order to win. Second, the Russians are severely limited in how many MMC they can move each turn. With that in mind...

1. Setup the armored cupolas and at least some of the fortifications with a Line of Sight to the "Church" building. This guarantees that they can't be "bypassed" by the battle. They can be used to help TAKE the VC building, and will still be there to help DEFEND the VC building.

2. If the Russian sets up carefully, he can see every location in the VC buildng. This means that the Germans in the building will not be able to grow concealment. This is key to the Russians taking the building.
Here are my tips for the Russian Setup.

1) Set up most (if not all) of the fortifications so they can fire on the VC building.
2) Setup carefully so the Germans in the VC building NEVER grow concealment.
3) Once the Germans are broken in the VC building, remember to "Kick em while they're down". Keep them DM every turn.

If you don't TAKE the VC building, you cannot win. Leave enough of your force - including the ATG's - to slow the advance of the German "rescue" force. But put 40% to 60% of your forces in LOS of the VC building - so they don't have to move. (this will minimize the effect of SSR 6)

The upper level of M4 can see over the wall and can see the ground floor of H3. This is critical as it is the only location that can see the ground floor ... all other locations of H3 can be viewed from many different locations.

I believe the cupolas can setup in the road. L2, J6 and D3 let them fire on building H3 and lay firelanes that will make running up the roads foolhardy.

The 37L AA gun has almost as good a TK number as your ATGs. Try for a flank shot and you have a good chance of a kill.

I'd probably use the pillboxes to hold infantry with MMGs. And I'd definitely set them up pointed at the H3 building.

Remember your guns cannot setup emplaced on a paved road - and that means they can't setup HIP there... I might use my two HIP squads near the canal. That way if the German player tries to cross, he has no way to "prep" them - and they guys are very vulnerable when they are up to thier necks in water.
 
Last edited:

esprcorn

Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
855
Reaction score
172
Location
Blacksburg, VA
Country
llUnited States
I believe the cupolas can setup in the road. L2, J6 and D3 let them fire on building H3 and lay firelanes that will make running up the roads foolhardy.
Setup restrictions say NOT on or IN the road net that includes L2 and J6.
 
Top