Orsogna copyright notice

[Philippe D.]

I just got the AF Orsogna box today - but it will be the last Advancing Fire product I buy, I'm afraid.

On the second page of the Orsogna rulebook is this paragraph:

All rights reseved. No part of this work may be reproduced or used in any forms or by any means - graphics, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying or informtion storage and retrieval system - without permission from the copyright holder.

I scan all my ASL scenarios, not just those printed on flimsy paper like AF does. I also scan HASL rules, because it's so much easier to look through the rules when playing VASL (which accounts for the vast majority of my ASL playing).

There is no way I can abide by these restrictions and enjoy the product. I cannot even try to play a scenario over VASL unless my opponent also has a copy of it, 'cause I cannot share the scenario with them.

Well, there are other publishers of quality ASL material. If Advancing Fire don't want me to play their products in a way that fits me, I won't buy them.

 

[Sparafucil3]

I just got the AF Orsogna box today - but it will be the last Advancing Fire product I buy, I'm afraid.

On the second page of the Orsogna rulebook is this paragraph:

I scan all my ASL scenarios, not just those printed on flimsy paper like AF does. I also scan HASL rules, because it's so much easier to look through the rules when playing VASL (which accounts for the vast majority of my ASL playing).

There is no way I can abide by these restrictions and enjoy the product. I cannot even try to play a scenario over VASL unless my opponent also has a copy of it, 'cause I cannot share the scenario with them.

Well, there are other publishers of quality ASL material. If Advancing Fire don't want me to play their products in a way that fits me, I won't buy them.

Is that even enforceable under the laws of France or the EU? I am almost certain US law allows for personal copies of all work.

I would love to play Orsonga. It looks good. I cannot see red contour lines on a brown/green map so I cannot properly read the map. I am going to be giving my copy away to a local player who can use it. -- jim

 

[Actionjick]

This seems rather ironic to me coming from a TPP.

 

[fabiofotomoto]

Really this sort of text stop you to photocopy or scan for a personal use?

 

[DVexile]

Well, it is not at all enforceable. They could just as well write “players must genuflect in the direction of Italy before playing any scenario” with equal success at enforcement.

I think in a world where it is so easy to copy and distribute intellectual property, and where copyright law varies around the world, that some creators end up with overly draconian copyright notices just hoping to make sure they haven’t inadvertently left a door open. They aren’t actively trying to make it hard for honest people to play the game.

Obviously you are free to spend your ASL euros however you wish, and there is an awful lot of great content out there to chose from, but if Advancing Fire is offering products you truly enjoy playing I am not sure that unenforceable copyright notices are necessarily the best hill to die on. Use the product as you have always used ASL products and if the next offering also looks fun no need to deprive yourself of it.

Hope you enjoy Orsogna! It looks pretty neat but I have the feeling it is probably more than I’m likely to have the time to chew on.

 

[Old Noob]

Obviously, Advancing Fire is serving notice to Romeo Tango.

 

[Neal]

I understand copyright and IP concerns, but if I buy a product that has terms like this I have zero qualms about making copies for personal use. Do it all the time, and will keep doing it. If someone wants to come after me and waste money because I scanned some scenarios into pdf ... come at me bro. /shrug

 

[Stewart]

I just got the AF Orsogna box today - but it will be the last Advancing Fire product I buy, I'm afraid.

On the second page of the Orsogna rulebook is this paragraph:
REDACTED

Did you just reprint written material from their Product without permission?

electronic or mechanical, including photocopying or informtion storage and retrieval system

I'm glad "information" storage systems was excluded.

 

[Philippe D.]

Did you just reprint written material from their Product without permission?

I did. I even almost made a joke of it, but thought somebody would point to me that copyright notices are not protected by copyright. (Are they? I don't know, and don't really care)

Of course I will make scans and personal copies. It's just that I intensely dislike the blanket "you cannot do this or that" attempt. I have no problem with producers asking (because that's what this is, really) their customers not to reproduce and share widely the result of their work, and I won't send copies of my scans to other players just because they show an interest in them. I will, however, send them when needed to play a game.

And, as much as possible, I will avoid buying a product if I know in advance that I won't respect its terms and conditions.

 

[olli]

I just got the AF Orsogna box today - but it will be the last Advancing Fire product I buy, I'm afraid.

On the second page of the Orsogna rulebook is this paragraph:



I scan all my ASL scenarios, not just those printed on flimsy paper like AF does. I also scan HASL rules, because it's so much easier to look through the rules when playing VASL (which accounts for the vast majority of my ASL playing).

There is no way I can abide by these restrictions and enjoy the product. I cannot even try to play a scenario over VASL unless my opponent also has a copy of it, 'cause I cannot share the scenario with them.

Well, there are other publishers of quality ASL material. If Advancing Fire don't want me to play their products in a way that fits me, I won't buy them.

Nothing stopping you apart from yourself , it would be for your own use. Everybody scans even MMP stuff for own use , why make a mountain out of a molehill out of this or have you just got a grudge against AF?

 

[Philippe D.]

I have absolutely no problem with the AF products themselves (I just bought two of them). There are some design choices in their HASL modules that I would most certainly prefer went the other way, but then I am not a designer myself, so it's completely all right that they decide what they want to see in a product that they work on.

But I cannot understand the tone of the blanket copyright notice. That's the only problem I have. I don't think these should be blankly disregarded, so they set bounds on what the publisher considers fair use practices; and in this case, I believe these bounds are not acceptable.

 

[DVexile]

But I cannot understand the tone of the blanket copyright notice. That's the only problem I have. I don't think these should be blankly disregarded, so they set bounds on what the publisher considers fair use practices; and in this case, I believe these bounds are not acceptable.

It says you just need permission from them, so if it is bothering you that much then perhaps you ask them for permission by email. Based on their response you can decide how annoyed to actually be.

 

[Jazz]

It's just that I intensely dislike the blanket "you cannot do this or that" attempt.
.
.
.
And, as much as possible, I will avoid buying a product if I know in advance that I won't respect its terms and conditions.

Sounds like a personal issue?

I wonder how many other ASL products have this sort of boiler plate?

 

[wurst nightmare]

I am not a lawyer, but from other copyright notifications, the caveat is you can do all those things for personal use. Anything where you financially gain, or deny them potential revenue by sharing with others is prohibited.

 

[von Marwitz]

I am wondering why you people spend time of your life to discuss this.

Just sayin'...

von Marwitz

 

[Stewart]

I just got the AF Orsogna box today - but it will be the last Advancing Fire product I buy, I'm afraid.

On the second page of the Orsogna rulebook is this paragraph:



I scan all my ASL scenarios, not just those printed on flimsy paper like AF does. I also scan HASL rules, because it's so much easier to look through the rules when playing VASL (which accounts for the vast majority of my ASL playing).

There is no way I can abide by these restrictions and enjoy the product. I cannot even try to play a scenario over VASL unless my opponent also has a copy of it, 'cause I cannot share the scenario with them.
.

It actually doesn't really matter what they say, it's what the law grants you the right to do with your property.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Now, we can hope that MMP won't turn against TPP to enforce some conditions required by copyright rules (e.g. by requesting a form of royalties or a license contract).
Did the Advancing Fire ask for permission to produce an ASL product – I would guess that the usual "compatible with ASL and other tactical systems" could be attacked in justice, as it is just a way to avoid paying a fee to MMP (everybody knows that TPP publications only work with the ASL system).
TPP should be very cautious when invoking copyright rules, as it can backslash right in their face.

 

[olli]

Let’s face it most people have scanned stuff for their own use or scanned scenarios etc if organising a tourney , handing out copies of said scenarios , it has happened for years, another storm in a teacup!