VASL Turret Modification

stuh42asl

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After all the Vassal/VASL changes it would be nice to have a stable team of programs.....It is frustrating to always have to change. I really like the idea that VASL updates are done twice a year. Continuous changes means peoples games can be lost, unable to be opened, or two players using different versions. And referring to the last issue I had with concealed counters turning an entire stack to concealment counters.. I checked both my old and new version, both passwords were correct. My 6.5.1 games that were saved were a total loss, when opening them in 6.6.0...I lost a years worth of game time( My Budapest CG IV, the Red factories CG, and my RO CG 2. This is why we need a stable program for each. make sure that all the bugs are worked out, so everyone can be sure that going on VASL both players can trust that his/her opponent VASL edition will not cause problems. As an example the Starfleet Battles Interface is updated, once the bugs are worked out then the update is released so everyone gets the same version at the same time. We need to do that here, so many changes in a short time is frustrating. The programing gnomes should gather up all the bug fixes, counter fixes, new maps modules and work on them, ensure no bugs, then release it every six months. Do all the beta testing off line, this way everyone knows it will work and everyone will be using the same VASL version on line. The same way with the VASSAL VASL interface, update that once a year.
 

hongkongwargamer

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After all the Vassal/VASL changes it would be nice to have a stable team of programs.....It is frustrating to always have to change. I really like the idea that VASL updates are done twice a year. Continuous changes means peoples games can be lost, unable to be opened, or two players using different versions. And referring to the last issue I had with concealed counters turning an entire stack to concealment counters.. I checked both my old and new version, both passwords were correct. My 6.5.1 games that were saved were a total loss, when opening them in 6.6.0...I lost a years worth of game time( My Budapest CG IV, the Red factories CG, and my RO CG 2. This is why we need a stable program for each. make sure that all the bugs are worked out, so everyone can be sure that going on VASL both players can trust that his/her opponent VASL edition will not cause problems. As an example the Starfleet Battles Interface is updated, once the bugs are worked out then the update is released so everyone gets the same version at the same time. We need to do that here, so many changes in a short time is frustrating. The programing gnomes should gather up all the bug fixes, counter fixes, new maps modules and work on them, ensure no bugs, then release it every six months. Do all the beta testing off line, this way everyone knows it will work and everyone will be using the same VASL version on line. The same way with the VASSAL VASL interface, update that once a year.
All my 6.5.1 games in 6.6.0
Heck .. all my 6.4.4 games open in 6.6.0

As a matter of fact you can certainly choose NOT to upgrade or to only do an upgrade twice a year.
Or you can keep multiple versions of VASSAL x VASL.

Also .. without all of us playing with new releases, how do the VASL programmers clear out all the bugs even if it sits around for half a year? They are not paid to do any of this, they are gamers like us.
 
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BigAl737

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Stew,

I’ve had a good look at all your examples. l prefer the current display of the markers. My vote is to keep things as is.

You’ve put a lot of thought and time into your idea and I understand some of the issues you’re trying to improve upon. As always with solutions, ymmv from others. I think your best option is to make your idea an extension. That gives players the choice.

I did the same thing with the Overlay extension. For various reasons the extension made better sense to me and my initial intent was for the extension to replace the old way of placing overlays. However, players quickly pointed out their preference for a choice between the old way and the extension, so we have both.

I’d like to see your work get a chance to prove itself. An extension allows that and still gives players a choice. A win win in my book.

My 2 cents.

Al
 

BigAl737

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After all the Vassal/VASL changes it would be nice to have a stable team of programs.....It is frustrating to always have to change. I really like the idea that VASL updates are done twice a year. Continuous changes means peoples games can be lost, unable to be opened, or two players using different versions. And referring to the last issue I had with concealed counters turning an entire stack to concealment counters.. I checked both my old and new version, both passwords were correct. My 6.5.1 games that were saved were a total loss, when opening them in 6.6.0...I lost a years worth of game time( My Budapest CG IV, the Red factories CG, and my RO CG 2. This is why we need a stable program for each. make sure that all the bugs are worked out, so everyone can be sure that going on VASL both players can trust that his/her opponent VASL edition will not cause problems. As an example the Starfleet Battles Interface is updated, once the bugs are worked out then the update is released so everyone gets the same version at the same time. We need to do that here, so many changes in a short time is frustrating. The programing gnomes should gather up all the bug fixes, counter fixes, new maps modules and work on them, ensure no bugs, then release it every six months. Do all the beta testing off line, this way everyone knows it will work and everyone will be using the same VASL version on line. The same way with the VASSAL VASL interface, update that once a year.
Totally agree, but...

The recent VASSAL code changes necessitated the recent flurry of VASL activity. Hopefully, once the bugs are worked out, VASL updates will go back to a 6+ month cycle like they were before.

Speaking of bugs...

It’d be great to test for ‘em offline before release but there’s only a few of us and tons of potential bugs that crop up on the myriad of OS’s out there in VASL world. No way we’re gonna catch them all. The pattern has been to release a beta before an official release. That works okay but I believe participation in beta testing by the users is usually pretty light. No offense intended. We in the VASL Cabal want the users to play the game. That’s why we do what we do. But that does mean bugs can easily escape beta testing. So most bugs are caught by the users after an official release.

Most of these bugs are relatively minor and get released at the next official release. What you’re seeing now is an anomaly IMHO and these major bugs have to get squashed quickly to keep VASL and VASSAL playing nice with each other. We in the Cabal want nothing more than for users to enjoy their games...especially now (Covid sucks!)

Anyway, I hope this background is helpful. I totally agree with you and understand the frustration. The reasons for these frustrations should end soon I believe.

And before I click send, I should caveat all the above by saying I am not Doug. He may have a completely different point of view to which I defer because he is way smarter than me ?

Al
 

BigAl737

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...My 6.5.1 games that were saved were a total loss, when opening them in 6.6.0...I lost a years worth of game time...
That’s very distressing to read.

There may be options here...

My apologies Stew. I’m not meaning to hijack this thread. I’ll take this private. @stuh42asl look for a geek mail.
 

Stewart

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Totally agree, but...

The recent VASSAL code changes necessitated the recent flurry of VASL activity. Hopefully, once the bugs are worked out, VASL updates will go back to a 6+ month cycle like they were before.
Doug. He may have a completely
Moral of the story.
STOP upgrading as soon as you see a new version.
Just like you never buy the first line of a new model car.
Common sense.
 

Stewart

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That’s very distressing to read.

There may be options here...

My apologies Stew. I’m not meaning to hijack this thread. I’ll take this private. @stuh42asl look for a geek mail.
No worries, is appropriate.
The issue is that many vasl players don't know an update, in terms of logic threads and simple additions that won't change anything.
They just see update and generalize.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Moral of the story.
STOP upgrading as soon as you see a new version.
Just like you never buy the first line of a new model car.
Common sense.
Or at the least run the old version simultaneous to the new one until positive there are no issues, or at the least the games in progress are finished.
 

Stewart

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Stew,

I’ve had a good look at all your examples. l prefer the current display of the markers. My vote is to keep things as is.

. I think your best option is to make your idea an extension. That gives players the choice.


My 2 cents.

Al
Not really sure that's possible.
I don't know much, but the turret images are wired to the TCA function.
I could duplicate the function and use other counters.
The issue is that if one party used the extension, the other party would see it on their end, defeating the purpose of the extension.
If players had my mod, then both could exist independently.
I'm working on white and red highlights.
Seems like about 3% dislike the idea based on my instructions if they watched and listened to my video.

White turrets are still available to use.
Coloring a "tab" of nationality colors could be done.
The loose turrets actually orient on the counter better, honestly
 

Stewart

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Or at the least run the old version simultaneous to the new one until positive there are no issues, or at the least the games in progress are finished.
That would be beta testing, which we know lacks participation as noted above.
 

Stewart

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Thanks for the effort, it is appreciated but....

If I have a question on a/an enemy/stack I can hover over it. I also don't see an issue getting confused as to what the vehicle counter is.

I would also want the old style left available for use with just Ctrl +B, I don't want any chance of missing a smaller or less "pronounced" CE/BU counter because it is less obvious. Like others, in FtF play I like to see the CE/BU counter on top of my vehicles.
But that's the point, you Won't have a question on the tank as you will be able to see it.


I'm working on highlights to the counters from suggestions I received from 2 others to make them a bit more obvious.

On the counters, you still cover the vehicle info up from your opponent as they are on the counter.

Again, The other turrets can Be used just as the Ctrl+B is used instead of drag and drop. just link to the white...its not hard, You'd have your turrets with your OLD and tested Ctrl+B and the new turrets could use a different function...although that is arbitrary.
 

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The loose turrets actually orient on the counter better, honestly
Then make your turrets a counter with a transparent background and available for DL and installation and see how many people adopt it. I personally like the current functionality. If pressed, I am willing to relent to the base white counter, but I will fight tooth and nail (or until a dev says shut up this is the way we are going) for the existing CTRL+B/A/S functionality to remain as is, tied to either the national color turret counter or the white turret counter. Why should I give up this functionality so you can have yours? You want to affect change, you have to bring us along for the ride. Right now, it's hard to see where you have the support to make it happen.

You are aware that the QC tray started as a mod. Many of the counters from the various HASL's and such started as mods. -- jim

EDIT to add: What about our red/green colorblind friends?
 

ScottRomanowski

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IMHO anything that makes it HARDER to see the status of a counter is a bad idea, and this change makes it easier to overlook the BU/CE/TCA status. You have to spend more time to carefully scrutinize each vehicle counter where a quick scan picks out the existing CE/BU/TCA counters. Please do not do make this change.
 

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Stew, I think it’s possible to make your work available as a mod. It’d involve modifying some prototypes in the core module that would direct the marker placement to your markers vice the current markers. Both players would have to enable the mod to see your markers. Games played without the mod enabled would use the current markers. Players could then enable or disable the mod at will, letting them play some games with or without your markers depending on their preference.

I’m not positive this is possible but in theory...
 

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Stew, I think it’s possible to make your work available as a mod. It’d involve modifying some prototypes in the core module that would direct the marker placement to your markers vice the current markers. Both players would have to enable the mod to see your markers. Games played without the mod enabled would use the current markers. Players could then enable or disable the mod at will, letting them play some games with or without your markers depending on their preference.

I’m not positive this is possible but in theory...
IMO, this is the best path forward ... in theory :) -- jim
 

Stewart

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I think you're missing the point. If you provide pictures, it would take 10 seconds max. If I watch your video, I have to spend 5000% as much time and watch an ad.
The effort
You realize when you watch the video, you'll actually see different views of the counter?
Ad block is a thing btw.

Showing you a picture doesn't tell the entire story.
I can create a picture and blow it up 5000%
It isn't reflective of the game situation.
 
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Stewart

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Stew, I think it’s possible to make your work available as a mod. It’d involve modifying some prototypes in the core module that would direct the marker placement to your markers vice the current markers.
I can't do that.
And it's not a priority for you guys
I'll just mod my own game and distribute.
Id like to know which community has more pull in VASL modifications.

People that hate changes, or people that embrace change.
If I eliminated the coverage on the counter and kept the overhang, they'd still complain.

They think the very first thing they see is the final product, no suggestions on changing the prototype, just no.

Blocking the information on the counter is a game issue, I simply want to make it far less of a game issue.

Just look at all the complaints about 6.6.0 etc you guys are working on due to VASSAL changes. "Why do we need new versions all the time?"
The answer is we don't but something we do... But they don't really take that into consideration...

They complain about removing the turrets, but they don't even know they exist in counter form....
The turrets are not being removed and I've offered to create a pallet of their colored turrets...
Nah, their flip phones work well.
Funny how most comments on GS are negative while most other comments in other media aren't.

I just want to know if GS is the community or is the community the community?

It'll be easy enough once changes are complete to simply add them to future versions (that I'll update to immediately, that's sarcasm)
I have other ideas in making the battlefield better and more visible, but no one here send to see that VASL isn't a board game is a computer game that improves on the board game. Most of us want to improve.
 
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