Thunder Run

[WMurray]

Thunder Run
The Armored Strike to Capture Baghdad
--by David Zucchino

I hadn’t picked this book up initially when it first came up out as I feared it might be not very good, some sort of instant journalism, as a whole lot of books are coming out now from the previously embedded reporters in Operation Iraqi Freedom. But I gave it a try after checking the reviews on Amazon.com and I’m glad I did: It’s every bit as exciting as Black Hawk Down.

OK, so why am I posting here? Well:

1. Thunder Run describes an armored strike into Baghad of three task forces from the Spartan Brigade and it describes the fight to seize and hold Saddam Hussein’s presidential palace and military parade grounds and three highway interchanges necessary to allow a resupply convoy to provide fuel and ammunition. The description here is sufficiently detailed for a scenario designer to replicate one or all of the fights. A game designer could use this for a large part of an Operation Iraqi Freedom game and most everything required for it is already present in ATF now.

2. For civilians learning ATF this book may be more accessible than others recommended: most every ATF weapon is used or mentioned, from tanks to Bradleys, MCLiCs to mortars, and T-72s to BMPs.

Finally, it’s a very good read for fans of armor or military history, which I assume many ATF players may be.

 

[tinjaw]

He also wrote a "summary" article in the Los Angeles Times Magazine December 7, 2003 on The Thunder Run. Google for it if you want a sample of the book.

 

[Deltapooh]

I'm ordering this book. Sounds very informative. I tried to simulate OIF in DA. However, as more information comes in, it becomes rather clear OIF was fought at the company to battalion combat team level, which is ATF/RT's department.

 

[Ivan Rapkinov]

me likey

ofc, I bought as soon as I saw it - which is becoming a bad habit. Picked up some shockers lately

 

[GlockMaster]

me likey

ofc, I bought as soon as I saw it - which is becoming a bad habit. Picked up some shockers lately

I often buy ASAIS (as soon as i see)
Please let me know which *shockers* you mean and why they shock you, so i can hopefully avoid them.

Maybe an example or two will do

 

[WMurray]

Yes, I’d also like to know which other books from embedded reporters, or other writers, are good or bad, too. The only other one I’ve read is

Generation Kill: Devil Dogs, Iceman, Captain America, and the New Face of American War

by Evan Wright

which is about the Marines, not the Army, with a reporter from Rolling Stone embedded in a platoon of First Reconnaissance Battalion Marines, that was placed out front of the main Marine forces to trigger ambushes, even though they were not informed by their superiors of what their real purpose was. It does not paint a flattering picture of their higher commanders, especially at the captain level, some of whom are downright incompetent, although the enlisted men and NCOs come off fairly well.

It is a very good read, however, and I learned a few things I didn’t know, such as how much they used DPICM ammo in OIF, at least initially, and that A-10s can drop phosphorus bombs (one example). It is a good read in the sense that I like narrative war nonfiction that is immersive and gives you a sense that you are there like the best of Stephen Ambrose’s writing, such as Band of Brothers.

However, it is much less appropriate for ATF learners or game designers than Thunder Run. There are also new books out on the first Gulf War and I’d be interested in recommendations on good reads, or books to avoid, there, too. For example,

Jarhead : A Marine's Chronicle of the Gulf War and Other Battles

by Anthony Swofford

was an example of a good read, but again nothing you could use for learning ATF or in ATF game design.

Anyone else have any good books to recommend reading or avoiding, especially narrative nonfiction on OIF or the first Gulf War?

 

[CPangracs]

The March Up : Taking Baghdad with the 1st Marine Division
by Ray L. Smith, Bing West

I have a book at home I bought at the bookstore downstairs that IS a good resource for anyone wanting to recreate the battles during OIF2's initial run to Baghdad, but I can't remember the name right now. It is "Back to Baghdad" or something similar, and it lists all of the units who participated, to include the Coalitions, as well as all of the Navy assets and the like. I'll try to remember to get the info tonight and post tomorrow.

Curt

 

[Cabron66]

You know what else is available (and I do not offer this as any kind of sarcasm or disrespect)? There are several interviews I have read and seen with high ranking officers in the Iraqi forces. Now I realize that some of these are suspect, but there are some fascinating tidbits in them.

I will have to do a search and try to get some specific links, but I would think that a lot of the info would be of extreme interest to game designers. I say this because some of these guys did find ways of causing significant distress to a vastly superior force. The best example being, of course, the disastrous Apache "deep strike" that was ruined by some concentrated small arms fire and some very creative use of a few men in civilian clothes. As I remember it, the Iraqis managed to seriously damage every chopper in that mission.

Anyways, I'll see if I can find some links. I hate to post this kind of vague reference but I was hoping maybe somebody else would have seen some of the interviews and be able to help.

Cheers

Paul

 

[CPangracs]

Okay, the book in question is "Baghdad or Bust" by Mike Ryan.