SK#1 - VC in S3, Simple Equation

[residue]

The VC in S3 is that the Americans win immediately when they control >= 25 building hexes.

Now: I'm assuming that "building hexes" != "a building", but rather that "a building" consists of one or more "building hexes". So far, so good.

But how does one determine if a building hex is controlled by one side or another? Does it have to be occupied by a Good Order unit? If so, the US might have problems, because they don't even have 25 units to occupy the necessary amount of building hexes.

If a Good Order US unit is the only Good Order unit in an entire building, does that unit then control the entire building (with all its building hexes)?

Should one draw up an arbitrary "frontline" and judge that the building hexes on your side are controlled by you, the building hexes on my side are controlled by me (this is how we played it :halo: ).

We (me and Major J) played this scenario yesterday, and are pondering about this.

 

[Robin Reeve]

The SK glossary is clear : a unit gains control of a hex or building if it occupies it and it is devoid of enemy units.
So, if a unit enters a hex of a multihex building, and there is no enemy in it, control of the whole building (and its hexes) is done.
You only lose it if the enemy regains control.
You don't need to occupy a building or hex to keep control : just avoid that an enemy unit steps in again.
That is as I understand the rules.

Usually one considers that the buildings within a side's setup are controled by it at game start.

If you have difficulties reminding yourself who controls what, place some markers in the hexes/buildings (you can even place coins, if you don't find appropriate markers)...

Of course, full fledged ASL rules are more sophisticated.

 

[residue]

You only lose it if the enemy regains control.
You don't need to occupy a building or hex to keep control : just avoid that an enemy unit steps in again.
That is as I understand the rules.

Ah!

That was the missing link for us. Thanks.

Which means that I, as the US, lost.

 

[Ole Boe]

Robin, I think you make the classical ASL mistake of assuming that building control causes control of all hexes. This is certainly not true in full ASL, and I'm quite sure it's not true in ASLSK either...

The SK glossary is clear : a unit gains control of a hex or building if it occupies it and it is devoid of enemy units.

Good so far...

So, if a unit enters a hex of a multihex building, and there is no enemy in it, control of the whole building (and its hexes) is done.

Control of the building, yes. But as you wrote above, "a unit gains control of a hex ... if it occupies it and it is devoid of enemy units". The unit (it must be a MMC) has not yet occupied all hexes of the multi-hex building. So it has gained control of the hex it has occupied and the building, but not of the other hexes of that building.

Now assume that there was an enemy unit in another hex of that building. In that case, you still gained control of your hex, but not the other hexes (of course), and not of the building.

You only lose it if the enemy regains control.

Correct.

You don't need to occupy a building or hex to keep control : just avoid that an enemy unit steps in again.

Correct - you gain control by occupying it with a Good Order MMC while the enemy has no unit there, and you then keep the control even if you leave it - unless the enemy regains it by having a Good Order unit there. So one MMC can CX and move into 3 building hexes in the MPh, and then a 4th in the APh, and thereby gain control of all 4 hexes.

Also note that if you gained the control of a hex and the enemy later enters the hex (while you're still there), then you keep the control, because it is now the enemy that must have a Good Order MMC while you have no units, to regain control.

That is as I understand the rules.

Mostly correct, except that you don't gain control of building hexes that you don't occupy.

Usually one considers that the buildings within a side's setup are controled by it at game start.

This a rule in ASL, but I'm not familiar enough with the ASLSK rules to know whether it's stated there.

If you have difficulties reminding yourself who controls what, place some markers in the hexes/buildings (you can even place coins, if you don't find appropriate markers)...

That may even help understanding the rule. Whenever you have a Good Order MMC in a hex that is unoccupied by enemy units, you may place a "control counter" there. That counter remains until the enemy gets to remove it (and place his own) by having a GO MMC there without any of your units.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Robin, I think you make the classical ASL mistake of assuming that building control causes control of all hexes. This is certainly not true in full ASL, and I'm quite sure it's not true in ASLSK either....

I was hesitating about the precision of the SK here - that is why I made an allusion to the full throttle ASL rules...
You convinced me the nuance between hex and building control exists in the SK too...

 

[bludengutz]

I was hesitating about the precision of the SK here - that is why I made an allusion to the full throttle ASL rules...
You convinced me the nuance between hex and building control exists in the SK too...

I prefered your original advice Robin, where occupation of one hex in a multi-hex building garners control of all the building hexes! Otherwise, SK3 would be very hard for the Americans to win. On my second playing (just finished) the US narrowly missed winning after they took control of 23 hexes, by moving swiftly from building to building, not building hex to building hex. The first playing they only took 8 hexes thanks to very stiff German resistance.

If they have to move to each hex to gain control, it is likely they will never win as they simply don't have enough units!

I've yet to see the full-on ASLRB, but expect it to be more complex that the SK, which after all is meant to be a gentle introduction the full rules!

However, I am grateful to this thread for explaining that once control is gained, you keep control even if the hex/building is later exited, until the enemy retakes control at a later stage.

 

[madDdog67]

I've yet to see the full-on ASLRB, but expect it to be more complex that the SK, which after all is meant to be a gentle introduction the full rules!

The SK is to the full rules as a toy rocket is to the space shuttle lol. There have been some complaints about the SK rules from a lot of folks who have never seen the rules binder...I'd love to be there when they read the first few paragraphs of the full rules. :laugh:

What the SK does a great job of is introducing and explaining the movement/defensive fire phases, which I (in all my noobness) think is the what makes ASL so special. It's still a complicated concept, but it's in a more compact overall package...there aren't 150 other pages to worry about! By the time you get through the SK scenarios, you'll have a foundation upon which you can start introducing some of the full rules.

I've played some ATS lately, and I just can't get past several of the game's conventions, especially with the impulse system. Once you've moved/fired a unit, you can't fire them again (barring an MG ROF), even against adjacent units. So, if you're outnumbered, once you shoot, 4 other units can assault move 5 hexes adjacent to you, then blast away...or you can save your shot to protect yourself, and then watch your opponent scurry around the map with impunity.

Bah...give me ASL, where a move into the open courts death with every step, and where a squad, leader, mg, and a couple of good DRs can hold up and entire company....seems so much more realistic to me.

 

[da priest]

.....give me ASL, where a move into the open courts death with every step, and where a squad, leader, mg, and a couple of good DRs can hold up and entire company....seems so much more realistic to me.

Bad dog..you were doing great until you hit the evil word...

The ASL method gives both sides more decision points and thus makes the game more fun...:smoke:

 

[zgrose]

Impulse movement makes the game feel more simultaneous. The lack of a FPF type mechanic is an oversight in the game system, not of impulse movement per se.

Personally I find some of the ASL MPh mechanics better than others. Residual Fire Power is pretty good but target selection restrictions for First Fire'd units is pretty bad. Half Squad charges just feel to cheese/sleaze by forcing an arbitrary linearity on what is attempting to model simultaneity (spelling?).

 

[GVL]

I prefered your original advice Robin, where occupation of one hex in a multi-hex building garners control of all the building hexes! Otherwise, SK3 would be very hard for the Americans to win. On my second playing (just finished) the US narrowly missed winning after they took control of 23 hexes, by moving swiftly from building to building, not building hex to building hex. The first playing they only took 8 hexes thanks to very stiff German resistance.

If they have to move to each hex to gain control, it is likely they will never win as they simply don't have enough units!

I've yet to see the full-on ASLRB, but expect it to be more complex that the SK, which after all is meant to be a gentle introduction the full rules!

However, I am grateful to this thread for explaining that once control is gained, you keep control even if the hex/building is later exited, until the enemy retakes control at a later stage.

I played SK3 once and felt also it is very difficult for the Americans to win. What gives ROAR?

 

[Larry]

simultaneity (spelling?).

Even lowly Microsoft Word endorses both the existence and spelling of the word. Good job!