Scenarios that have changed over time

Paul M. Weir

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I have little doubt that there is an optimum solution for any side in a scenario. What I mean by optimum is the the solution that gives the greatest chance of victory for a side given that randomised outcomes are in play, unlike chess where each 'combat' event is non random. Eventually in Chess you might end up with a set of solutions that guarantees White (I suspect) to always win or Black to always win. However Chess has a problem in that each player decision opens up another decision branch and to date all the branch outcomes become too numerous to follow to their conclusions with current technology, so not yet. That's just with 16 pieces per side and 64 locations/squares/hexes in the game.

Someone about a year ago asked about combinations of the existing boards and I calculated that even just for end to end combinations and trying a new combination each Planck unit of time (5x10^-44 seconds) and using the minimum space to hold the board orientation information (9 Planck units of volume) then it might be doable before the last star dies out except for the energy required to do the calculations. See: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-many-board-combinations.125852/.

Now that is not the same as figuring out what the number of possibilities for say a 10 squad 2 leader and a pair of LMG per side on a single board. With chess every player turn a single piece is moved and an attempt to capture/kill an enemy piece always works if the taking piece has the requisite reach. Each friendly chess piece has much stricter limits than an ASL unit, eg. no stacking, for pawns only forward movement (2 squares as first move, 1 thereafter) and only 2 possible attack targets, though can suffer Defensive Fire via the "En Passant" mechanism. Setup in chess is rigid as well. Then when doing an attack in ASL there are more than one outcome (eg no effect, pin, break, k/?, K with possible side orders of battle hardening, etc) rather than the one in chess (a capture). You have roughly an order of magnitude greater possibilities for each ASL unit each turn than for each chess piece. So while technology might eventually get to the stage that we may be able to say that White will always win, I very, very much doubt that we will ever be able to say the same for ASL. I suspect such a calculation would take many, many times longer than the universes lifetime. While theoretically calculable, it would be grossly impractical.

So in summary each ASL scenario has an optimum solution, there is no practical way to calculate that solution. The only other way is to play it many, many times. It's the equivalent of trying to calculate fluid flow via accounting for each molecule vs doing experiments and deriving the laws of fluid dynamics.
 
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bprobst

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Questions for the thread
Not 100% sure that this is the right thread for these questions but never mind ....

1) Do all scenarios have an optimal solution? A perfect attack or defense that will always generate a win? If so, is that good? Should they? If so, is (or should be) discovering such an optimal solution a product of experience - ie 'good' players - or luck?
Hell no, on all points. What would be the point of playing if you knew you were 100% guaranteed of winning or losing?

Do some scenarios have an "obviously" best approach for attack/defence? Yes, certainly; that in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, although possibly it hampers replayability. Is there a way of guaranteeing victory? In some scenarios, quite possibly. I would say that would make for a very poor scenario indeed. If I want a pre-ordained outcome, I'll read a book instead.

2) What does balance mean? Does it mean either side as a 50% chance at victory immaterial of experience? Or is balance that any two players of the same skill level have a 50% odds of victory?
It means what you want it to mean. To me it means that either side has a reasonable chance of victory assuming competent play and "average" luck on both sides.

3) How do we deal with sample size issues in design? In a 6 turn scenario with less than 20 units total the number of rolls that materially change the win probability is probably under 10.
The advantage of small scenarios is that it's easier to playtest them over and over again. That's how you "deal" with the design of them. Personally, I try and avoid tiny scenarios -- it's way too easy for a single bad DR to skew everything so that the scenario is no longer fun to play. The larger the scenario, the more likely it can "absorb" whacky results. That doesn't mean that all scenarios have to be enormous -- just that they shouldn't be tiny. I particularly dislike tiny scenarios in HASL settings -- you have to read up on several pages of specialised SSRs (etc.) only to have it all made moot when the 8-1 is whacked by a sniper on Turn 1. If you're going to make a tiny scenario, for God's sake keep it simple.

Further do I think player skill/knowledge can 'break' scenarios.
Well, duh.
 

Roy

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I have little doubt that there is an optimum solution for any side in a scenario. What I mean by optimum is the the solution that gives the greatest chance of victory for a side given that randomised outcomes are in play, unlike chess where each 'combat' event is non random. Eventually in Chess you might end up with a set of solutions that guarantees White (I suspect) to always win or Black to always win. However Chess has a problem in that each player decision opens up another decision branch and to date all the branch outcomes become too numerous to follow to their conclusions with current technology, so not yet. That's just with 16 pieces per side and 64 locations/squares/hexes in the game.

Someone about a year ago asked about combinations of the existing boards and I calculated that even just for end to end combinations and trying a new combination each Planck unit of time (5x10^-44 seconds) and using the minimum space to hold the board orientation information (9 Planck units of volume) then it might be doable before the last star dies out except for the energy required to do the calculations. See: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-many-board-combinations.125852/.

Now that is not the same as figuring out what the number of possibilities for say a 10 squad 2 leader and a pair of LMG per side on a single board. With chess every player turn a single piece is moved and an attempt to capture/kill an enemy piece always works if the taking piece has the requisite reach. Each friendly chess piece has much stricter limits than an ASL unit, eg. no stacking, for pawns only forward movement (2 squares as first move, 1 thereafter) and only 2 possible attack targets, though can suffer Defensive Fire via the "En Passant" mechanism. Setup in chess is rigid as well. Then when doing an attack in ASL there are more than one outcome (eg no effect, pin, break, k/?, K with possible side orders of battle hardening, etc) rather than the one in chess (a capture). You have roughly an order of magnitude greater possibilities for each ASL unit each turn than for each chess piece. So while technology might eventually get to the stage that we may be able to say that White will always win, I very, very much doubt that we will ever be able to say the same for ASL. I suspect such a calculation would take many, many times longer than the universes lifetime. While theoretically calculable, it would be grossly impractical.

So in summary each ASL scenario has an optimum solution, there is no practical way to calculate that solution. The only other way is to play it many, many times. It's the equivalent of trying to calculate fluid flow via accounting for each molecule vs doing experiments and deriving the laws of fluid dynamics.
Paul makes my head hurt. Also, I was going to start looking up some words that I haven't ever seen in 50 years, but my head hurt too much to bother. Where's the advil?

JK Paul, :D
 

FourDeuceMF

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which KE scenario was your favorite at that time?
So, so many fond memories....

Probably my favorite, should I be forced to choose one, would be KE9 - "Aces over Eights", from the March Madness '97 pack. A special commission I asked Mark Neukom to design up a scenario where Michael Wittman gets his one-way ticket to Hell. What Mark came up with was a bit like a high-stakes Poker game - the 'antes' were the Tigers vs Fireflies up front, but if the Brit wanted to go 'all in' (heck, this scenario pre-dated the 'Texas Hold'em' craze!), he could turn it into a positional game by bringing on the Scots in their Kangaroos. Played to the wire most times.

After that, probably 'Denouement' from TOT#2. Also loved 'Sacrificial Lambs' out of the MM98 pack. Enjoyed a good game of that at ASLOK, about 20 years ago, with Pete Phillipps (of VFTT and ManUre infamy).

Of 'my' designs, "LT Elmo's Fire" was my first published (also in the MM97 pack), and the redesign of "Angels at the Airfield" in the MM99 pack. I may need to go back and revisit some of these someday. Hoping that in the next year or two, the pace of my work lessens, and I can get back to the ASL grind. :)
 
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