Pilloboxes/Buildings without enemy units & Sighting TC (E7.3):

[fabrsm]

Hello all.
Using To Hit Area Fire allows me to fire HE even on hexes potentially without enemy units (see also, "Firing at empty hexes" post) and this could also be done by planes dropping bombs but these planes, before attacking, must pass a SIGHTING TC.
which drm should be applied if, for example, the target of an aircraft with bombs is a Pillbox with no enemy units?
Thanks

 

[Doug Leslie]

Hello all.
Using To Hit Area Fire allows me to fire HE even on hexes potentially without enemy units (see also, "Firing at empty hexes" post) and this could also be done by planes dropping bombs but these planes, before attacking, must pass a SIGHTING TC.
which drm should be applied if, for example, the target of an aircraft with bombs is a Pillbox with no enemy units?
Thanks

All DRM apply normally. The “target” just doesn’t suffer the -2 modifier for not being HIP/concealed.

 

[Robertleclerc]

Not sure you can based on E7.4 first sentence.

 

[Doug Leslie]

Not sure you can based on E7.4 first sentence.

True. I was thinking of observation planes as opposed to bombing runs.

 

[fabrsm]

Hi,
..but in this case the drm referring to "+3 Target is in building/woods/rubble/orchard (in season)," would not be applied..because there is no enemy unit inside...or?

All DRM apply normally. The “target” just doesn’t suffer the -2 modifier for not being HIP/concealed.

 

[fabrsm]

Re-reading Rule E7.3 well, I understood your silence.

 

[Doug Leslie]

The DRM doesn’t apply because an aircraft cannot target an empty hex for a bombing run. The DRM would apply if it were an observation plane looking to call in an OBA attack, in which event the highest DRM in the blast area would apply to the sighting TC.

 

[EagleIV]

Actually a FB can bomb an "empty" hex. First they pass a Sighting TC on a hex with a unit and use its MGs on that hex, then they make a strafing run and they can then bomb one of the other hexes in that run including "empty" hexes.

 

[Doug Leslie]

Actually a FB can bomb an "empty" hex. First they pass a Sighting TC on a hex with a unit and use its MGs on that hex, then they make a strafing run and they can then bomb one of the other hexes in that run including "empty" hexes.

That doesn’t need a sighting TC though.

 

[fabrsm]

Hi,
I found this Q&A:

"May a FB/DB take a Sighting TC vs. a Location devoid of enemy units? May other (non-initial) target Locations that are devoid of enemy units be strafed to leave RF?

No. [Perry] Yes. [Perry]"

thus it can attack an empty hex without doing the Sigthing TC. (..provided I haven't translated badly..) Thanks

 

[Vinnie]

Hi,
I found this Q&A:

"May a FB/DB take a Sighting TC vs. a Location devoid of enemy units? May other (non-initial) target Locations that are devoid of enemy units be strafed to leave RF?

No. [Perry] Yes. [Perry]"

thus it can attack an empty hex without doing the Sigthing TC. (..provided I haven't translated badly..) Thanks

I think you are interpreting it wrongly. In order to attack an initial hex, it must pass a sighting TC. It cannot do so against an empty hex. Thus you may not attack the empty hex.
This will be to avoid the gaming of the system.
I have a concealed unit in a woods hex you really want to bomb. The TC will be hard so you attack an empty hex and then attasck and bomb my guy in the subsequent hex.

 

[fabrsm]

I have to be honest; this question and answer had always left me with a small doubt: "..so, why specify with an exception that instead an aerial observer could do it in an empty hex?"..

ps Thank you for your interventions to make me understand.

I think you are interpreting it wrongly. In order to attack an initial hex, it must pass a sighting TC. It cannot do so against an empty hex. Thus you may not attack the empty hex.
This will be to avoid the gaming of the system.
I have a concealed unit in a woods hex you really want to bomb. The TC will be hard so you attack an empty hex and then attasck and bomb my guy in the subsequent hex.

 

[fabrsm]

Hi,
..but then it would be interesting if the MMP would allow, as with direct fire, airplanes to strike a hex with no enemy targets or with hypothetical HIPs by adding the following exception:
exception: an airplane can attack an empty hex or with hypothetical HIPs only if it uses Point Attack (E7.402) and Area Target Type (E7.422).
Sighting TC (E7.3): apply only drms that affect visibility or proximity of friendly units to the target hex.

I think you are interpreting it wrongly. In order to attack an initial hex, it must pass a sighting TC. It cannot do so against an empty hex. Thus you may not attack the empty hex.
This will be to avoid the gaming of the system.
I have a concealed unit in a woods hex you really want to bomb. The TC will be hard so you attack an empty hex and then attasck and bomb my guy in the subsequent hex.

 

[Vinnie]

Hi,
..but then it would be interesting if the MMP would allow, as with direct fire, airplanes to strike a hex with no enemy targets or with hypothetical HIPs by adding the following exception:
exception: an airplane can attack an empty hex or with hypothetical HIPs only if it uses Point Attack (E7.402) and Area Target Type (E7.422).
Sighting TC (E7.3): apply only drms that affect visibility or proximity of friendly units to the target hex.

This would be better added as an SSR if the designer thought it needed.
Air support is probably more powerful (and more vulnerable) than it was. Generally, they did not strike at the front line but in interdiction mode in the rear.

 

[fabrsm]

Ok per SSR,
but if we talk about the "blitzkrieg" period, where planes (mainly Stukas), during the deep advances of armored vehicles, replaced artillery, I would say that they also hit targets not in depth.

This would be better added as an SSR if the designer thought it needed.
Air support is probably more powerful (and more vulnerable) than it was. Generally, they did not strike at the front line but in interdiction mode in the rear.